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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Would you be concerned if all the class was on the same reading level?

67 replies

PollyPG · 01/03/2011 13:01

I went to look around a private school yesterday. I really loved it as the atmosphere was great, lots of happy children, wonderful extracurricular activities, small class sizes, great headmistress and pastoral care etc. There are specialist teachers in each subject for the Prep School and they get very good results at 11 and 13.

But.... I was very concerned to see that in Reception that all the children were on the same book band - ORT Stage 2. I'm not so concerned at the actual level, but at the apparent total lack of differentiation. At the local state primary, which I also visited, children were on levels ranging from 1 to 8! Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I am concerned how indicative this may be of their teaching methods. The teachers did say that they differentiated for different abilities but this was a bit worrying as it seems that they don't practice what they preach. In Year 1, they all have the same spellings, which again I would have expected to have been differentiated.

Would this put you off a school?

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redskyatnight · 01/03/2011 13:09

In a small class, that doesn't sound particularly odd for Reception. With the exception of 1 child, DD's Reception year (60 children from very varied backgrounds) currently only span 3 reading levels. If this was the case in Year 1 or above I would agree it was odd!

In Year 1 at the DC's (state) school most children have the same spellings - the bottom end have easier/fewer spelling, and the top end can optionally write sentences including the words if they want to. I think this is fairly "normal".

What about "normal" literacy/numeracy lessons - did you see evidence that they were differentiated (again, they may not be in Reception, but for older years)

Michaelahpurple · 01/03/2011 13:19

I disagree - I think it is v odd in reception. Our reception varies from ORT 1 to 11. Given some will arrive reading already, and some not know all their basic sounds, some of the early readers must have been held back to achieve such uniformity.

LoisSanger · 01/03/2011 13:20

I'd find it odd. And given that DD in Reception is reading at a higher level than ORT2 I would be concerned she would be being held back a bit.

Original poster

PollyPG · 01/03/2011 13:29

I didn't see any particular evidence for differentation in normal lit/numeracy, but it is a bit difficult to say as I was only in each classroom for about 5 mins. I must say that the impression that I came away with was that the more 'able' ones coast along in Years R-2 and then it all cranks up a gear once they reach Year 3.

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belledechocchipcookie · 01/03/2011 13:32

Sounds unfair to make children coast, they lose interest and enjoyment in reading and school so quickly when this happens. The bright ones must be incredibly bored

Original poster

PollyPG · 01/03/2011 13:36

That was my main worry, although all the children did seem to really enjoy being at the school. Maybe I'll go back for another visit armed with some more searching questions this time.

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meditrina · 01/03/2011 13:36

I'd find it odd. When my DCs were starting school there was a huge range of pre-existing reading level. The whole class went through a phonics programme (to learn or to consolidate and ensure everyone was well grounded) and that probably included some whole class texts. But they all had individual levels (widely varying from the September born precocious reader right through to the August born bilingual child) for their reading books.

If you're concerned about this aspect, go back and keep asking about what they are doing until you understand their answers, and then decide if you are happy with it. I should imagine a small class, especially if allthe children come from one or two nurseries, would look very different to that of my DCs.

bigTillyMint · 01/03/2011 13:37

Yes, very odd. I would expect at least a few of a private school reception class to be reading at a much higher level than that.

Lizcat · 01/03/2011 13:40

I would say as a parent with a child a private school very unusual. In our class in reception the variation when children started on a reading scheme ran from already on scheme in school nursery through to did not start to summer term as not ready. In year 1 there were at least 5 different levels of spellings in a group of 16 children.
I would be asking questions about how often the children are heard individually heard to read in DDs school daily in reception, year 1 guided group reading once a week, individual 4 days a week, year 2 3 days a week. It also asking about maths how do they support pupils who struggle and how do they extend those who need it.

littlebylittle · 01/03/2011 13:40

I can't believe that a class, however small, would have such uniform reading ability at this stage in reception. Even if selective, there would be a difference, and I'd expect it to be higher than that in a selective school. The only thing I can think of was that perhaps it was a guided/group reading session where children at a similar stage are put together to read a text at their level. If you like the school I'd probe deeper- there could be issues with differentiation if those were the individual readers of a whole class.

Original poster

PollyPG · 01/03/2011 13:56

These were the books that were reading from individually at home and also at school - it definitely wasn't a group session. The teacher made a big point of saying that they are all heard to read daily, and I said 'are they all on Level 2' and she replied 'yes' so it was fairly unambiguous.

Thank you all for your comments - very helpful. I am going to visit again and probe further!

OP posts:

wordfactory · 01/03/2011 15:12

Sounds a bit suspect to me.

Though I do recall DC's teachers insisting they read very broadly within the levels before moving on. They were adamant that it was the regularity which was important and that is wasn't a race.

Maybe it has something to do with that???

BeenBeta · 01/03/2011 15:24

wordfactory - yes DSs Prep school used to say the same thing in Reception and Yr1.

The pace picked up and differentiated a lot more in Yr 2 onwards. In fact they went hel for leather in Yr 2 and threw anyone out who could not keep up. That was not a good thing.

PollyG - I would go and look at Yr 2 classes to see what is happening. Do probe and ask questions.

TBH though ORT Stage 2 is still a fairly good pace for Reception. I dont think they are being held back if that is what you are worrying about.

wordfactory · 01/03/2011 15:52

Cor, it seemed like there were hundreds of books in each level.

Still, we steamed through 'em. And I have to say that it gave every child an utterly solid grounding.
Almost everyone in the year got a level 3 in their SAT, level 2a at worst.
And it's not an academically selective school so they must know this method works.

skybluepearl · 01/03/2011 16:12

sounds very odd. at my sons school everyone was level 3 to 12 by the end of reception. small class of 16 too.

ninani · 01/03/2011 16:24

As far as I know our son is in the highest reading band in his class for reading and only a few have just started to read. Although he is very good and knows 100% of each silly ORT they give him (every 3 weeks!!) his school seem to move them extremely slowly through the levels. So he started at level 3 and now he is at 4 and a few are at level 2 or 1. So apart from him I would say the rest are not very varied. He had been given lots of books at both level 3 level 4 and now they stopped because the teacher has ..no time. Or maybe they run out of band 4 books At least "heard daily" as you were told sounds fine! Maybe the school you visited is not in the levels race either.

But if all children are at level 2 then
a) ALL of them can read (a bit strange)
b) you would expect children from a more privileged background to be ahead in reading. I would expect at least one of them to be quite higher, more like level 6 (or 4 if they are slow racers like in our son's school )

Our school's intake is from a very deprived area and the children do not even have a Reading Record book so the teacher can expain how he goes or what I need to do with him because .. "it didn't work for all parents" for goodness sake!! So I can't understand how a private school reception class has all of them at level 2.

Littlefish · 01/03/2011 17:00

Definitely not normal, and something I would be really concerned about.

I teach reception in a state school and have children from non-readers up to stage 5 at the moment.

Having said that, in my dd's class (20 of them), they are all within a couple of bands, but I would expect that to widen during this year. They were pretty badly taught in Reception, with most children being on the same book band. The Y1 teacher has extended those who were ready.

mrz · 01/03/2011 17:36

Certainly not normal in any class I've ever taught and I disagree with Beenbeta about ORT level 2 being fairly good I would expect my "strugglers" to be at that level.

Hulababy · 01/03/2011 17:40

Spellings being the same, no problem.

Reading the same, not normal. Is it perhaps just a class reader and they have other individual reading books?

Where I work our reception children come up starting y1 on anything from pink (a non reader) to White or lime (pretty much free reader.) both extremes are within the "normal" range.

Bonsoir · 01/03/2011 18:05

At my DD's school (French-English bilingual) they do whole class teaching, and all 24 children in her class are on the same page of the same book, all the time, right through the year.

There are five classes, and two of them are a little differentiated (one works at a higher level than the other four, one has groups within it).

It's fine!

Fiddledee · 01/03/2011 19:19

Ask them, you pay you can ask. Say it concerns you and can you chat to the reception teacher about it. I'm sure they would be happier you did that than reject them with perhaps incomplete information.

littlebylittle · 01/03/2011 20:07

You could also justifiably ask in a state school. I'm not trying to be snotty, but just because you don't pay, doesn't mean you just put up and shut up. In either sector, build a relationship with the school. Your support earns you the right to question IMO. Sorry for the sidetrack.

BeenBeta · 01/03/2011 21:15

mrz - I am unsure what you are doing at your school. Maybe you only read the ORT classic stories but in DSs school they read the classic stories plus many other ORT books at the relevant level.

Yes it is possible to just blaze through the ORT classic Biff & Chip stories but the ORT summary chart shows there are many other books at each level. The chart suggests that ORT Stage 2 is appropriate for age 4-5 children than just the classic Biff & Chip stories and our DSs Prep school emphasised the importance of building a solid base not just wizzing through.

Once they had built the base in Reception they then allowed more able readers to forge ahead in Yr1 and Yr 2. Most were 'free readers' by the end of Yr3 and it was generally regarded a very academic high league table school.

Given the children that the OP saw were in Reception the ORT Level 2 sounds about right for children only 1.5 terms into their schooling and some of whom would not be age 5 yet. I expect they were just about to move to Stage 3 in this half of term which again sounds about right.

Fiddledee · 01/03/2011 21:19

The poster is trying to decide which fee paying school she wants to decide to send her child to. They want her money and she wants to find the right school for her DC. Running a private school I would want to answer a potential parents questions if they have any doubts on the teaching style or any other aspect of the school. So may a state school but ultimately you are allocated (after stating a preference) a reception place. This is about choosing schools not building a relationship.

Michaelahpurple · 01/03/2011 21:24

My concern wouldn't be necessarily with being on level 2 at this point in reception, per se, more the eire consistency. I don't think that having rigid benchmarks in reception is helpful - same with reading, where some our DS2's class are doing joined up cursive, while others (somewhat closer to home) are still sometimes heading off round their b's the wrong way.

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