SATS Levels in Yr 5

[CHUNKYMUNKEY]

Can anyone tell me what these levels mean?

Just had my dd's parents evening and i was told her practice SATS results. She is 9 (an August birthday) and is in Yr 5.

level 3c maths
level 4c writing
level 4c reading
level 3b science

Her teacher told me she is doing well, but maths is her weakest subject, trying to understand the levels but feeling confused. Is a 3c underachieving? trying to work out if a tutor is needed.

An "average," middle-of-the-road child might be "expected" to attain a 3A/4C by the end of Year 5.
Which would mean that, going by these levels you've been given, that she's slightly ahead of the middle in English, OK for science, but needs a bit of a push in maths.
That's putting it in crude terms but is the gist of it.

An average child at the end of Year 6 will be a Level 4. Below average would be a Level 3, above average a Level 5.

SATS are broken down into 3 sub levels - a, b, c, A being the top sub band within each level.

An average child at Year 4 should be around a 3b in order to hit an average target of 4b in Year 6. Based on this, then yes, your child is working below where they should be.

Based on these results, I'm surprised Science is not more in line with reading/ writing results. Often there is a correlation between reading and Science, due to it being an understanding issue with both of these.

Levelling is not an exact science, and your child may well start making more progress, but it is something to keep your eye on as this stage of their education.

One practice test for a child who isn't used to SAT tests doesn't tell you an awful lot, I'm afraid. A teacher assessment of where she is working at on a day to day level would be far more useful.

Expected levels for year groups other than Y2 and Y6 are largely guesswork, but broadly speaking around a 3a/4c by the end of Year 5 is desirable to reach the expected level of a 4b by the end of Y6. I would say as a current Y5 teacher that I would regard 3c as a little behind and I intend to target my 3c children with some intervention this term. But I would never rely on information from a one off test to arrive at this conclusion, nor would this be the only information I would share with parents.

If your dd was my child, I would want to know a day to day picture of what level she works at in the classroom and next steps to help her progress.

Thanks, just found her YR 4 SAT results and maths was 3b in Yr 4 so she seems to be going backwards. i know these are practice papers but i think her school are being blase about the results, she is an "average" student but always tries her best, i find maths difficult as well.

It worries me that all their judgements seem to hang on one annual test - how do they know what to teach her if there isn't any teacher assessment?

As Feenie says, one paper isn't necessarily something to base a level on. Termly my class sit a practice SATS paper as a levelling exercise, but on top of that I assess how they're working in class. E.g. this time one of my less able children lucked out and did fantastically well, bumping his level up to a high 4c. I know he's working around a 3b, maybe 3a level, so I've amended his result.

Your child's teacher should be using their professional judgement as well as test papers at this stage IMO.

Just seen your post feenie, i looked at her maths book with her work and she seemed to be doing just fine,

i know she finds maths harder than other subjects and i cant base everything on a one off practice paper, but i am starting to get concerned that she is falling further behind.

I will ask the school about booster lessons, i was told before they only do this in yr 6.

Are the SATS an all-year round assessment by the teacher or is it a one off test, my dd's SATS are in May this year i think,

SATS are formal tests administered in Year 2 and 6. In years 3, 4 and 5 there are optional SATS which can be administered and this is what you are referring to I think.

As part of a teacher's role, we assess the children during the school year on a formal basis, to give them a level. This can be done in a variety of ways, our school does this through a formal SAT like test and teacher assessment of work on a termly basis.

Some schools have dispensed with tests and use teacher assessment using something called APPs (Assessing Pupils Progress). At our school we're not so keen on these, they're a bit wishy washy, hence we do a mixture of assessments.

Boosters are generally something that are offered in Year 6, especially in the run up to formal SATS. Ask how your child is being supported in school, additional help etc. Where does she fall in the class? Is the class a class with a lot of more able or less able children? This will have some bearing on the amount of help available and where the teaching is being pitched.

Thanks ClaresF, from what i have seen in the classroom she seems to be in the bottom 8 of 30 kids, they are split into 6 ability groups. Her teacher does seem to help her as much as she can, I will speak to the teacher again.

I think i will get a yr 5 workbook and do 10 mins a day with her, i do help her as often as i can but i think we need to crack on a bit

I don't think over-testing helps either - I wouldn't do three SATS a year, even in y6. If teacher assessment is rigorous enough then it should tell you everything you need to know and exactly where to go next - a test shouldn't give any surprises.

chunkymunkey, my ds is in the same year and has similar grades. I came away from my parents meeting this week confused by sats etc, but then i always do. in fact, your post has made me realise that i wasn't even given the science scores! how bad is that?

i found that the only way i sorted out my childs work at school was to go through the head as his teachers seemed to always know absolutely nothing. all they could tell me was his 'sats' score and when i asked but, that aside, how is he doing in class, do the levels match up or is test pressure? they could never tell me. it was like 'computer says no' as all they could explain was the result from a test as this is all they seem to use.

it wasn't until i met the head and complained, that i was 'allowed' to have a meeting with his teacher for that subject area [they are streamed] and now he is getting lots more support. i dread to think what would have happened if i had not met her and i just regret not seeing her a year previously.

This is one of the reasons why i was confused over the results, all dd's maths SATS since yr 2 have put her as "average" which as she does find the subject difficult i was expecting, this is the first time she looks like underachieving and it is a surprise. I've been close to tears since i got home. I don't think i can afford to get a tutor, i feel like i'm failing her,

feenie, my ds school spends weeks and weeks doing 'sats' [every term]. it makes me cross, they could actually be learning something new in that time!

chunkeymunkey, i know EXACTLY how you feel. after every parents meeting since my child has been in the juiors I have cried!! With frustration and feeling guilty. i couldn't afford a tutor and have done loads with my ds. i think his problem was that in the infants and especially year 3, they completely over assessed him and graded him to high. because of their inability to assess correctly i was never aware of any problems until really late and now it is harder to catch up.

It's unnecessary - good teachers know exactly where children are working using lots of sources of evidence. Y2 teachers are excellent at this and have been doing it for years - they have so much evidence that the tests don't tell them anything they don't know already, inside out. Some KS2 colleagues could learn a lot from them.

I am going to write a note to the teacher and ask to speak to her again about my concerns and take it from there, should i speak to the head? what do i say? I like the school, it is rated outstanding by ofsted and my dd is really happy there but i get the impression that unless the children are at a very low level they don't push them along more, maybe they are going to wait until they see her actual results in the summer and then do something,

What surprised me even more is even her english and science levels seem low, I am always told that she is average/above average in these subjects. Are these grades just based on the practice exam paper or is the teacher assessment included too?

Legostuckinmyhoover - have you been doing workbooks with your ds?

"What surprised me even more is even her english and science levels seem low, I am always told that she is average/above average in these subjects. Are these grades just based on the practice exam paper or is the teacher assessment included too?"

That's what you need to ask, and if it is a SAT level, then what is the TA? English seems fine to me btw, and Science on track to be average by the end of Y5.

Most schools do not wait till Y6 to say 'oops, xxx is behind, let's booster them quickly!' - in most schools, close tracking enables them to give intervention quickly, and where it is needed, and that's why my 3c children receive extra help now in Y5.

But you def don't need a tutor. Between now and end of year 6 she should come up a whole level. So she is on track for a 4c

She'll come on heaps and heaps over the next year and a bit before SATS. I would be very surprised if she doesn't make a decent average 4 next year.

She is only the tiniest bit behind 'average'. Not enough to be worried about.

If by the end of the school year she is still a tiny bit behind then you'll be able to do a little bit of work with her over the summer holidays. Because that is the most she will need - a tiny booster.

She is not doing badly enough to need a tutor.