Do you think it is still within a normal range not to be able to count to ten at this stage in reception?

[emkana]

And not to be able to write anything, not even your name?

It's not is it?

If he was in Ireland, he wouldn't be starting school until September - so perfectly normal for Ireland! Ds was 4.8 when he started school, he is 19 now and supposed to be studying for a business maths exam tomorrow - so he must have caught up.He was also slower than I'd have liked to learn to write and colour... Can your 'baby' count up to five? So he can help set the table and things? (Are you sure you have his age right, I'd have said 3, as I remember the epic wait for his arrival!)

Sounds similar to my ds (4.9yo). I'm not worried but then my ds is very unhappy at school so I wouldn't expect him to have academically progressed. But saying that I'm not worried that he's not writing or counting. I think he'll get there. If this was yr 1 I would be worried.

Quite unusual, especially if you have tried to teach him. In my class this year of that age group,(14) all of whom have spent the previous year in part-time education, I was surprised to find one who could not say the numbers in order. Some don't yet recognise the written symbol and one is shaky with one to one correspondence.
Try some intensive instruction, which is what we have done with our boy.

emkana I'd say it was unusual (the counting, not the writing).

really, really helped DS2 get his numbers in the right order, if it's any little help :)

Trouble is he's not always willing to be instructed.

Well then you have a problem! Getting your child's compliance and attention is the first thing to work on. Can you get his attention for other things?

He loves being read to, but is otherwise quite obstinate.

I'm not very good at knowing what is in the normal range, as DD has autism, which significantly affects her learning, but if you are concerned, I would speak to the school's SENCO, even if just to put your mind at rest.

It is good that he is happy. IF he does have problems with learning, and it must be a big IF at this age, then being happy and self-confident will be a great help!

We concentrate on what DD can do, not on what she can't do. Self esteem can easily be damaged at this early age.

If he loves being read to could you try books with counting in (you may have already tried this) then at least he's listening to the numbers being repeated in different stories.

My kids loved Sesame Street! Lots of all singing all dancing numbers and letters - maybe that would grab his attention? Dvds might be available in your local library, or car boots for a trial. (We still sing the 'number three song' on occasion).

There's a difference between counting as in reciting a sequence of numbers, and counting as in applying those numbers to determine how many of a particular item there are iyswim.

Not being able to do the latter is not uncommon for Reception, I'd have thought. Not being able to recite one to ten is probably less usual. How is his memory for other items? Can he recite patters of non-number words (blue green red, blue green red), can he remember nursery rhymes and spot rhyming words? Will he spot patterns with shapes (eg alternating a circle and a triangle) or with colours? If you get him to recite the numbers, does he always make the same mistake, or is it different ones each time (my ds used to count 'fourteen, fifteen, seventeen' for eg, but it was always the sixteen that he left out. If the sequence is different each time, that would be a bit more unusual, I'd have said.

I'm not trying to bombard you with questions, just that it migth help if you can narrow down which aspect of counting he has trouble with (memory, sequencing, patterns etc) or whether it's specifically related to numbers.

emkana I was hoping this wasn't you! (IYKWIM)

I would be concerned about the counting tbh, tho I have certainly known children at the start of reception who couldn't count beyond 2.

The writing is less of an issue IMO.

Counting 10 objects is a target for end of FS2. Doesn't sound as if he even moving towards that tbh; I would ask for SENCO to help.

He spotted a rhyme for the first time the other day. He's not very good at remembering songs either, can't singly any song straight through. He enjoys doing those cbeebies weekly magazines, and they have number and sequencing tasks in them, but he struggles with all of them.

I always felt that he wasn't ready to start school, but was persuaded to give reception a go, and he is kind of enjoying it. But looking ahead now, I just can't see how he's going to address the year one curriculum.

The target at the end of reception is to count 10. My ds is pretty advanced and can count to 100 fairly reliably. He can only just write his name though and I'd still say that he's ahead by doing that.
In which case I'd say the not counting is unusual but the not writing is quite normal.

I strongly think you should make an appt with the SENCO to discuss your concerns.

If the SENCO doesn't think that he is a problem - great. But agree with her a follow up meeting (say in one terms time) and what he must be able to do by then (say count to 5) in order for the school to not be worried.

They must be able to tell you at what point / age does 'not being able to count to 10' change from 'normal' to 'a cause for concern'.

Then at least he is 'on their radar'.

The writing - no
The numbers - yes

It might be worth talking to the teacher.

Will get onto it after half term.

In case this helps Emkana, my DS couldn't count to 10 when he left reception and I ended up teaching him during the 1st term of year 1 when HE decided he needed to learn it to keep up with the others. He is now in Year 4 and near the top of his year group (out of 66 children) for Maths. It was exactly the same story for English. He couldn't write his own name very well at the end of reception and had a limited grasp of all the sounds. We learnt together at home when he was ready during year 1 (used www.starfall.com v. good) and he quickly overtook early readers to become one of the best in his year. So I'd say, keep an eye on him but no need to panic nor really to assess him yet. Better surely to let him learn when he wants to... or slip in knowledge via computer games.

Emkana, if he was in Germany, what age would he be starting school?

Hello
'10 wriggly caterpillars' is an excellent counting book if he likes being read to.

We are in Germany, and school starting age varies from state to state, but here in Bavaria they start between 6 and 7 years old, depending on birthday and whether they are kept back a year (loads of children are, especially boys, often by their parents if they don't think they are ready to concentrate for long periods, though sometimes the school or kindergarten or paediatrician recommends they wait til 7). My daughter is nearly 5.5 and is in the pre-school year at Kindergarten and they have just started a project called "number land" in which they learn number rhymes and things - and due to Sept birthday she is the youngest in the school preparation year at her Kindergarten, some are well over 6 already - a 4.8 year old would still be considered a "mini" and not doing any letter or number work. Some of the children can already read and write and count etc. as they pick it up at home etc. but it is not "expected" that they even start to learn before aged 5-6. It is a very recent phenomenon here that Kindergartens even introduce number work, it used to wait for school so many children started learning at 7 for the first time.

You are so right, and me being german myself I should know really... It's just hard not to worry when you see other child doing so much more.

He is still very young, and what you describe may well be in the range of "normal". Some kids are just late bloomers, but this doesn't say anything about their ability in the longer term. However, I also put a lot of faith in a parent's gut instinct, and if you think there might be cause for concern, I would definitely second the recommendation to meet with the senco. It can't do any harm to raise the question!

I would be a little worried about the numbers....

With regards to writing, it might be worth understanding what they have done at school to help him?

My DS1 started reception without being able to hold a pencil/pen, but the teacher spent quite a lot of time helping him to develop his pincer grip and with a lot of reinforcing at home he can now write legible letters/words. It has taken some time/effort though.

Might be worth asking the teacher whether she is willing to offer some support/guidance.

MRZ on here had written once a really excellent list of activities to aid fine motor skills, something else worth trying if he is not keen on the writing act as such.

Mrz might be along with it soon, or maybe worth doing a search on here? I think it was one of my posts on a similar topic.

HTH

This is for schools but has some nice practical activities.

I would do things like

counting the items into the shopping trolley at the supermarket

counting the things as you put them in the cupboard

counting stairs up to bed

counting steps from the door to the car/path/gate

counting how long you can stand on one leg numbers of hops/jumps/claps

counting how many blue cars pass on the way to school or to granny's house

in fact counting anything

sing number rhymes in the bath or at bed time

find his own special number (age or front door number) look for it on other doors/buses/car number plates ...

play board games and count the spots on the dice jump the correct number of spaces around the board