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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Really worried about daughter's maths ability.

22 replies

VivaLeBeaver · 15/02/2011 16:59

DD is 10 next month, is in Yr5. Maths has always been her weak point. When she was in Yr 2 she was about a year behind. We paid for an hour of private tuition once a week for a year and to be honest don't think it helped much. She was still a year behind when she finished, though the tutors pointed out that she was now a year ahead of when she'd started. But as I pointed out she was a year older and hadn't caught up.

Anyway, we moved her to a different primary school, one with better continunity of teachers ratehr than endless supply and also very small class sizes. I think there are 14 in her class (state).

We had a parents evening in Oct where her teacher wasn't overly concerned about anything. Said her maths was weaker than other subjects but she was getting there and they were giving her extra support.

Well homework this weekend. She had sums to do like - An item is £15 but has a 1/4 off it, how much is it. So I explained that she needs to work out a quater of 15 and then take that figure away from 15. She can't do it she says as 15 isn't in the 4x table. So I explain its perfectly possible to do it but she may end up with a half number. I ask her what half of 15 is and she has a melt down, so I take her through the steps till we get to 7.5. Then tell her to halve 7 and then halve hte half. She has a melt down and can't tell me what half of 7 is.

I went to see her teacher today who admits that DD is really struggling but they are giving her extra help. They're getting some new maths aids/books/something for kids who are struggling and think DD will benefit from this. Plus afetr half term they split the class in 2 so there will only be 7 in her class.

I'm worried as I think at nearly 10 she should be able to tell me what half of 7 is. But also the teacher looked gone out at me and said DD shouldn't be halving it and halving it again. But should just divide by 4. So I don't think I know how to help her - I'm obviously using different methods to school.

I've bought Letts books in the past but struggle to get DD to sit down with me and work through them - ends in tears. Do I be stricter and insist she does them? I've been too soft in the past probably but don't want to turn her off learning by making it a chore. She won't listen to me when I try and explain stuff, just cries and shouts at me. I tried Education City and it wasn't any better.

And my mother is under some fucking fantasy that DD will pass her 11+. There's no way in hell she will if she can't halve 7. Not that I mind but DD reckons she wants to go to the High School.

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IndigoBell · 15/02/2011 17:03

I think you need to find out more info from school. What level is she currently working at? She should be a level 3. If she is still working at a level 2 then you and school should be concerned....

They say she is getting 'extra support' - does that mean she is on the SEN register? Should she be? Does she have an IEP?

IslaValargeone · 15/02/2011 17:06

Have you tried maths whizz or mathletics?
What about another tutor? I certainly wouldn't push it given how fraught your attempts have been. What about a little break and then try again, also try and use as many opportunities as you can to apply maths to every day situations, she may find this less stressful and once she sees how maths works in real situations she might start to get it.

activate · 15/02/2011 17:07

get her a subscription to mathletics and make her start well below her age

this will help her build her confidence and also teach her the bits she might be fuzzy on

also appreciate that half 7 is tricky - if you'd asked her what half of £1 is would she have known 50p? they do it by finding the closest possible number that does divide then workign out the difference

HTH

FreudianSlippery · 15/02/2011 17:13

Is the work properly differentiated - if it's way too hard then they should accept that and give her easier work for a while.

Is she a physical learner? Maybe having a literal representation of the numbers would help. Like using play money.

mnistooaddictive · 15/02/2011 17:33

That take a quarter off £15 appears on GCSE papers and lots of foundation students (g- c) get it wrong. If she can't do it now, font worry!

sarahfreck · 15/02/2011 17:33

I'd second trying a different tutor - particularly one who might be able to build a rapport and gain some trust from your dd and might also be able to work out a bit more where the problems lie. I'd also ask the school what NC level they think she is working at. This way you'll get some idea of whether she is more than a year behind now.

I'd also agree that using some physical manipulatives might help. I like Cuisenaire rods.

sarahfreck · 15/02/2011 17:35

PS. If the new maths books/aids are something called "Power of Two" I'd watch with a bit of caution as I've heard mixed things about them.

GrimmaTheNome · 15/02/2011 17:38

I think if I was you I'd ask the school how you can best help her, and how you can learn what methods they use. Teaching her some different (even if perfectly sensible) approach may not be helpful - my DD is very able at maths but gets furious if I ever try to explain something she's stuck on and its a bit different from what the teacher has said, its usually counterproductive.

Having a class size of 7 after half term ought to help - thats awesome for a state school!

OffToNarnia · 15/02/2011 19:32

I think that I would want more detail about the support the school are giving. Our primary 'stream' from year 2 in maths and are part of a scheme 'every child counts'- they are great at supporting those who find maths difficult/are afraid of the subject. You need clarification on how the school is helping your DD.

Sam100 · 15/02/2011 19:36

Have you seen this book maths for mums and dad?. It is excellent at explaining modern methods of teaching maths which seem different to the way we did it at school and explains why they are doing it differently.

Sam100 · 15/02/2011 19:53

Just asked my dd - she is yr 4. She said they would do it like this:

Half of £15 is £7.50 (though she said 8.50 to start with!)
Half of £7.50 (worked out as half of 7 is 3.50 plus half of 50p is 25p) is £3.75

Then £15 take away £3.75 is £11.25.

So your method would be what my dd recognised from school.

claig · 15/02/2011 20:07

You are right that she will need to know those type of questions to pass the 11+. Is there any chance of trying a new tutor?

Original poster

VivaLeBeaver · 15/02/2011 20:38

Thanks for the advice, I'll go back into school. The help she is getting is that the TA (who's a qualified teacher) takes the kids out of class who are struggling in maths and goes through stuff with them in a smaller group. So the whole class have the lesson and then anyone who feels they're struggling can go out with the TA. The teacher says that DD is good about asking to go out.

I just said to DD about Mathletics and she said she wouldn't do it. I could throttle her at times. Anyway rather than being heavy handed with her I've promised her an extra £1 a week pocket money if she does a minimum of 30mins a week on it.

If that doesn't work she'll have to go to another tutor. But I'll definetly ask for more advice from school. Teacher looked at me like I was daft when I said about halving it and halving it again to get a quarter. It seemed the obvious thing to me!

OP posts:

sarahfreck · 15/02/2011 20:47

It sounds as if your dd may already have a "thing" about maths judging from her reactions. As a tutor, I've seen this before and I think that what happens sometimes is that they just don't get quite enough time to consolidate their learning. As maths is quite a linear subject, over time this leads to a rather wobbly framework of understanding and they get it fixed in their heads that they "can't do" maths! Then they'd rather just "not bother" than keep trying because doing the maths just starts up anxious and inadequate feelings. Actually, given enough time and appropriate teaching to reinforce the basics, they usually make good progress!

FreudianSlippery · 16/02/2011 06:14

sarahfreck can you tell me more about the power of two thing please? Never heard of it. :)

Original poster

VivaLeBeaver · 16/02/2011 07:19

Sam100 - Just orderd the book you recommended as well. It looks like it'll be useful, thanks.

Sarahfreck - I think you're right about her already thinking that she "can't do maths". She gets herself in a state before even starting. I think her old primary school probably didn't build a good foundation for her.

OP posts:

IndigoBell · 16/02/2011 08:43

power of two it's by the guys that did toe-by-to

oopslateagain · 16/02/2011 08:55

Viva I got my dd to start being interested in maths by using money. I found out her favourite sweet prices, then put a pile of money on the table and had her pick out the right money for the sweet, then we'd go and buy it. Then I went on to giving her a pound and she had to give me the right change, then we'd go get the sweet. We usually did it straight after school as a treat.

Simple but it really brought home to her how maths was useful in normal everyday life.

sarahfreck · 16/02/2011 13:28

Actually I don't thik Power of 2 is by the Toe by Toe people (Keda and Harry Cowling). It's by someone else but copying the Toe by Toe style of doing things. I love Toe by Toe and have not used Power of 2 but I've had a student doing it at school and it didn't seem to help and he didn't like doing it either.

CharlieBoo · 16/02/2011 22:11

I just wanted to reply as your thread is just me aged 10. I was a bright above average child in every subject other than maths. I struggled so much. I just didn't get it. At secondary school they put me in an average group for maths(I think because I was bright in other areas) and the teacher would sit with me going through stuff over and over. It just wasn't my thing. I didn't get a grade c in maths GCSE (actually got an E) but all my other results were As n Bs. It hasn't held me back at all.

I would also like to add that that is a tricky sum and I think I would go back a bit and build her confidence with things she can do.

DownyEmerald · 16/02/2011 22:35

Just to say I struggled with physics and my dad (ex-teacher, ex-tutor) tried to help me. It was a disaster, like when he tried to teach me to drive. Our relationship was a huge part of the problem, I was near to tears before I even tried to work something out. There was all sorts going on in my subconscious.

I know he was a successful tutor because he transformed the relationship of some of the boys he tutored with maths. One ended up doing a maths degree. Just didn't work with me.

I think a tutor could be the answer, but it has to be right one. Just to change the relationship.

I still struggle with physics/chemistry - it's the abstract nature of it - you can't see half the things you're studying.

skybluepearl · 17/02/2011 14:55

try maths-whizz - its great fun. my son has been doing it for almost two months and already i can see he is more confident. He actually enjoys doing it too and sometimes i struggle to get him off the computer.

www.whizz.com/

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