Parent's night advice

[Anice]

I'd appreciate advice from someone who knows how schools work in practice on how to handle parents night this week?

DS2 is in year 2 and his teacher is a NQT. She's very sweet, I think she wants to do a good job, the little girls love her, BUT my son isn't making any progress under her (and other parents are privately saying the same to me about their children). One issue is class discipline - its a really noisy class although it wasn't last year when they were in year one. Several of the boys are quite boisterous, although my son is not. He is clever though and he entered the year at level 2b in numeracy and literacy. He finished the reading schemes a year ago and he is still only one of four children (out of 30) who have advanced this far.

If I am honest, I don't blame the teacher because I think she tries her best but I do blame the head for not giving her more help.

I looked at what my son could do this weekend and I was shocked at how little he has improved since he left year 1. he doesn't even know how to answer in sentences and he has never seen any sort of reading comprehension exercise. In maths, he is able to do his big brother's year 4 homework faster and more accurately than DS1 (and DS1 is in the top set) but the work DS2 is given at school is so basic that he barely tries. The teacher knows what he is capable of, but she has said to me before that she is unwilling to give him work that would take him beyond year 2. We discussed the maths last term and she was very defensive. She just says that the work is challenging and that is that. She also said that the class is not noisy but she backtracked when I pointed out that I help out regularly in school with reading (and now she shuts the door is she realises that i am working nearby). DS2 no longer seems to enjoy school and tries to pretend illness most days now whereas he wanted to go there last year.
Is it worth having another go at getting my son an education this year - we are only half way through after all - or should I just write ti off? If I do raise these issues, what can I say that won't result in a childish "is", "isn't", "is" battle. I don't see the point unless I can realistically hope to achieve something.
Any advice or insight would be good as to how to handle this?? Please!

Oh and guess who my MP is? Michael Gove!

Put him on the waiting list for every other school. Places come up fairly regularly....

I'm just reading this having been directed from my thread and I can't believe it - I'm in shock. I'm so angry on behalf of you and your DS; how on earth can they get away with inadequate teaching? And to not be encouraging and recongising your sons apptitude for maths is really concerning.
Can you write a letter to the Head saying what you wanted to face to face but wasn't given the chance?
I have to say this is my worst nightmare and it makes me so cross that schools can get away with this and that 'meeting the average' is regarded as ok. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH

I have had exactly the same problem with my dd who is in yr2. She has been doing maths/english way below her capability level and we have had no help or support from both class teacher/or HT. I reckon schools like to 'dumb down' the bright ones so they fit in more with the average ones and the slower ones can catch up. We are moving her to the private sector in the hope and expectation that we as parents get treated more like 'customers' rather than obstacles.

Hello
I am experiencing something similar in my dealings with the Head Teacher at my daughter's school in North London. My daughter is in Year 1 and the issue is not about her progress.
I've been volunteering in the school regularly for a year or so and early in 2010, whilst having tea in the staff room, I overheard a conversation about a child with asthma in the school that concerned me. My mother died from an asthma attack and I've worked for the Nat Asthma Campaign so I do understand something about the condition. There was disparity in the views of 3 staff members about how to dispense asthma medication. I saw the Head privately to discuss my concerns - telling no-one else other than my husband. I felt this was the appropriate way to deal with the situation. Her immediate defensive response was that 'there is always a problem with eavesdropping when we allow parents into the staff room'- the asthma issue seeming less important. I was subsequently informed that I had misconstrued what I heard - but how would she know as she wasn't there? - and she was satisfied that all staff were competent in this area. (I must add that this arose at the time an 11-yr-old died of asthma as a result of school incompetence.)
Since then we have had a frosty relationship and I sense she is unhappy to have me working in the school. Almost every time my husband and I have questioned anything about the school the Head has asked to meet with me about my volunteering, the last time implying staff had concerns about me and my behaviour. I was so shaken by this I asked one of the parent governors to sit in on the meeting as a witness. The Head could not substantiate what she'd implied and simply re-visited the asthma issue (which I had dropped)and another issue about school fruit. She said I was always making complaints - I have never actually made a formal complaint. The school claims to be open to both negative and positive feedback but this has not been the case in our experience.
I have recently involved myself in trying to set up a PTA at the school as there has not been one for years. It is a difficult process and I haven't handled some aspects of it diplomatically but no-one else has bothered to set one up in recent years and I know it's appreciated by parents.
I've done this in spite of my difficult relationship with the Head as I don't see why I should just keep my head down.
She had already restricted my volunteering to 1.5 hours a week so that I wouldn't be going into the staff room - and placed me in the deputy head's class. I am complying with all this. But she has now found something else 'serious' to meet me about but won't tell me what prior to the meeting. She has suspended me from volunteering tomorrow until we have this meeting which she has called at her convenience but she won't tell me why. Understandably I won't see her alone and my husband isn't available at the time she wants to meet. She is being difficult about this and I think suspending me is unreasonable until she tells me what it's about. I suspect there is a subtext but I am finding all this quite upsetting. It feels like victimisation and maybe the aim is to get me to give up on any involvement with the school - It all seems to go back to my raising an important medical issue (that doesn't even affect my child) in private with her last year. Maybe I should have taken it further then as I was not happy with the way she dealt with the issue at all.
I'd appreciate hearing what others think about this and how I should proceed.

Thanks.

I think that, honestly, you do need to pick your battles carefully in schools and balance any worries and complaints, formal or otherwise, with positive praise and noticing the efforts of staff in and out of the classroom. If this isn't your pattern of behaviour you can be seen, instead of as a broadly supportive parent raising legitimate concerns, as someone wanting to pick holes in the practice of the school. Now some heads are better at dealing with this than others. Clearly yours might benefit from a more diplomatic approach. But it is part of her job to support her staff, second of course to the needs of the children if the two are in conflict. Parents in the staffroom are an issue in some schools- many are not as discreet as you snout repeating what they hear in the staffroom.

I wish I could help you Jules2. I had a problem with this HT a year ago. Like you it was something that I thought she would sort out because my opinion of her was so high. But she didn't sort it out - and worse - she seemed to bear a grudge against me because I'd witnessed her failure to even try (even though like you I chose not to even acknowledge what i had witnessed).

I think there may be a life lesson here for both of us i.e. some people can't bear to be in the wrong and will hold it against you forever if they know that you know they were (even if you don't use it against them). I guess its the same human behaviour that makes some people try to stone the bearer of bad news.

As to what you can do.. well I am obviously not the person to ask, apart from to say the obvious which is don't do what i did! Avoid ever having another conversation with her again and maybe you'll be alright.

My husband and I consider ourselves very supportive of the school - we volunteer in the garden and in other areas and have donated things to the school and offered constructive suggestions. The whole point of creating a PTA is to try and increase income for things that will enhance the lives of all the children. And we do praise the school's efforts and those of the children. But the response we - and other parents - seem to get to any criticism is 'make a complaint' which is rather extreme, don't you think? Maybe the HT feels so well supported in her position by the LEA that she thinks we will get nowhere with a complaint anyway. I don't know.
It seems to me she is from a generation of teachers (from my childhood certainly) who were beyond parental criticism, who had total authority and did not really want or welcome parental involvement. My parents were content with that but many of today's parents are different - better educated, better informed, more interested in their child's education. But there are also parents who are less assertive, or who have language difficulties who find this intimidating and alienating.

My husband and I consider ourselves very supportive of the school - we volunteer in the garden and in other areas and have donated things to the school and offered constructive suggestions. The whole point of creating a PTA is to try and increase income for things that will enhance the lives of all the children. And we do praise the school's efforts and those of the children. But the response we - and other parents - seem to get to any criticism is 'make a complaint' which is rather extreme, don't you think? Maybe the HT feels so well supported in her position by the LEA that she thinks we will get nowhere with a complaint anyway. I don't know.
It seems to me she is from a generation of teachers (from my childhood certainly) who were beyond parental criticism, who had total authority and did not really want or welcome parental involvement. My parents were content with that but many of today's parents are different - better educated, better informed, more interested in their child's education. But there are also parents who are less assertive, or who have language difficulties who find this intimidating and alienating.

Meant to add - of course a HT will be supportive of their staff but when an issue is raised about something as serious as asthma it is their responsibility to address it properly. She might easily have pleasantly fobbed me off with a story of how she'd look into it, etc, etc. I would've bought it because up to that point I had thought well of her.

I'm no expert on the subject of numeracy teaching but, as a volunteer I have been involved in supporting children in their maths work. I've worked with a group of children asked to do sums in the way you describe - using either dots or boxes to show working out. But most of them have already done the sum correctly before drawing the 'picture'. Surely this kind of visual aid is only appropriate for a child who is struggling with simple sums? Most of the kids quickly become bored and start being disruptive.
I think the problem lies mainly in the lack of time a teacher has to spend with each child - is it 10 minutes per child per day? I think they are obliged to offer work which fills up time and the children who need more challenging tasks become bored and lazy. I'm sure some teachers are better at overcoming this problem than others but it is helpful if they acknowledge a problem when it's raised and address it properly with the parents.

Anice. I don't believe your HT has a right to stop you helping in the school whether you make a complaint to the governors or not.
Suspension should be based on valid and substantiated concerns about a parent - not just because the HT feels uncomfortable about you being there.
I'm sure you feel uncomfortable too and that saps any enjoyment out of working with the children. Again, I know of other volunteers who've stopped because they don't feel it's worth the aggravation.
I now feel my movements around the school are always under scrutiny. I'm possibly a bit paranoid though! However, Ive done nothing wrong and neither have you.
You shouldn't let this go as it affects your son's progress and future. You may have to go to the LEA and raise it there as a matter of concern. It doesn't have to start out as a formal complaint. Try always to have a witness in discussions with the HT (it can be a parent or other governor).
I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to this.

I did give up volunteering yesterday. This is the HT's 3rd attempt to stop me from helping in a matter of weeks.

After the first time, the teacher involved was embarrassed. After the second time, I told the teacher that if there was a third attempt then I would stop and the teacher (who is fairly senior within the school and well respected) clearly managed to get the head's agreement to leave me alone. However, that only lasted a month and ended yesterday.

But now that I think back to what actually happened in the meeting yesterday, I realise that the HT got me there under false pretences. She said it was to continue the discussion from the evening before about DS2's progress but once inside her room, she showed no interest in discussing DS2 at all. And she also pushed hard for me to bring a complaint to the governors. I had not even thought of it. Anyway, I have thwarted her on that by making it clear in writing that i will do this if and when I feel it is appropriate. What is she up to?

I have never heard of such treatment of someone who clearly just wants to help and support the aims and activities of the school. You have been very unlucky. I hope they can find other wonderful committed parents to help out without callously victimising them.

I hope you can find another school.....

Not sure what she is up to wrt the formal complaint.

There is a good probability that we will leave the area completely this summer (DH likely to get a new job), so if I can just put up with this until then.

In my mind, DS2 will not receive an education this year and his sats results will be affected as a result. However, he is only 7 so its not like a prospective employer is going to turn him down in 20 years time based on this is it?

Ds1 will get taught this year and that's good. Ds2 will probably have to do some stuff with me in the evenings and weekends and school will be about socialisation for the time being.

She has shown herself to be a spiteful, petty, cow though so I hope she doesn't turn her attention to the children. For me, that is the line in the sand. if she crosses it then I will fight very, very hard.

but the children she stopped me helping were 9 year olds who cannot read. For the first time they were actually getting the attention they need and they were beginning to progress. not to mention that they had placed their trust in me to help them. I feel very bad about that.

Anice
Is your HT in her 60s, thin with grey hair? She sounds so similar to ours - I'm starting to wonder ...

I'm a bit confused by the literacy levels he's been given, forgive me. I would not give any child who could not write in sentences anything above a 1b (for writing). And yet the book bands reading scheme goes far above 2b, so if he's finished it he would be on a 3-something for reading. Could you explain a little more please?

Panzee - you are scaring me a little! Here is

Ds2 completed the reading scheme in April last year (year one). He then moved on to reading short novels such as those published in the 4u2read.co.uk (Barrington Stoke) series. He can cope with these books easily: mostly he reads to himself but when he reads aloud to me, he rarely gets stuck on (or mispronounces) words, his expression is reasonable and he can relate back to me what the story was about and his opinion about the characters. For choice at home, he reads Horrid henry level books and he particularly likes a book called "Tale of Tales" which is a series of interlinking short stories and poems. I bought it with the intention of reading it aloud to him at bedtime but this never happened and now Ds reads it for choice when he feels like reading (which is not that often when he thinks the Wii might be available instead!).

As to writing, he knows how to form letters, his spelling is pretty good - he can handle words like "picture" or "telephone". DS1 has long had a party trick of accurately spelling long, complex and unfamiliar words and Ds2 appears to have the same talent. Certainly, he does not struggle with the words he is given to spell as homework e.g. "growl". In fact, he doesn't even try to learn them.
What i am unhappy with is that if I show him a short passage (taken from a KS1 SAT test), and ask DS to answer the questions, he gives one or two word answers. When i ask him to answer in sentences, he is not familiar with the term and when I show him by example, he clearly has never tried to a technique that uses part fo the question to provide the answer. e.g "Why did the boy go into the field?" Ans: "The boy went into the field to...". Ds2 would just say "to get his ball back".
I was not expecting him to have mastered this by now, but I did expect that he would have heard of the concept by now since he has been able to do everything I described above for eight months now.

Jules2 - it can't be the same school as parent helpers are not allowed anywhere near the staff room

You work in the school - could you tell me if they used coloured book bands? Have you heard what they use for reading assessments, maybe PM Benchmark?

The writing you describe is nothing like I do - I've never done SATs and don't do comprehension exercises that you describe, that tends to assess reading rather than writing. Children never answer in full sentences, whether orally or in writing - it's not really how we speak so they don't think to write like that.

I tend to assess writing from stories (they're the easiest to assess in my opinion). How is his story writing?

I can see two possible reasons why the head has asked you to complain in writing.
a) She is aware that this particular teacher is poor, and wants more evidence to back up disciplinary process, or to justify to the governors why the schools results are poor.
b) She wants to prove that your relationship with the school has broken down, so she can justify banning you from helping.

BTW I have an issue with our school where they limit the attainment scores year by year, so they blithely say "the most you can get in Y4 is a 4a" or the highest we score in Y3 is a 3a etc.
In year 5, they are even saying this to the children!

The Deputy Head defended this in a governors meeting on the grounds that they need to show steady progression!

I am gradually getting my teeth into this, as it is one of the few things that I think are totally misguided in our school.

panzee they do use coloured book bands, and whatever this means, Most of DS's books have brown tape on the spine.
I don't know the answer to the reading assessment question. I have never heard of PM benchmark.
When I said he had finished the reading scheme, I was using the school's terminology and what i meant was that he had reached the end of the series of books, similar to ORT. On finishing this, he was told he could start reading any book he chooses in the library, although i suspect he is guided towards these brown-edged books.

I just looked through his work on Tuesday night prior to the meeting. I don't recall any short stories, although there was the odd bit of writing here and there, usually two or three sentences about something the teacher must have asked him to write about.

Its not much to go on, but I would be grateful if you would tell me your best guess at which level you would expect to find him on given my description, if he was joining your class tomorrow?