Deferring school entry - England

[GlynistheGimmer]

Hi all

Could anyone who has done this or even thought about it, please share a few thoughts/ideas with me?

I'm not sure my DD is going to be ready for reception in Sept...and before anyone says it, yes I know it's a long time between now and then, I would just like to discuss it She will be 4 in June.

If you wanted a deferred start, say until after christmas, did you talk to the school at all or just 'suck it and see'? What was your school's reaction, did they welcome the dialogue or not?

Why did you think your DC wasn't ready for school?

TIA

there has been a law change and you now have a legal right to defer a child's place until the term after they are five (or if they are five after april, until the start of the summer term).

But I do have a few questions, and if anyone can answer, I'd be grateful.

• Are schools now legally obliged to hold open the place (so previously you had the right to defer, but hte councils then also had the right to deploy your place elsewhere).

• Do you notify the school or the council.

• My local council (I have called them) and our local schools (the two I have speoken to at least) have been given no information about this new right - and i feel i will have a fight on my hands come september if I wish to defer (i'm not sure if I will yet but i'd like to keep my options open, particualry as we would previously have been january entry).

Can someone possibly direct me to the relevant legislation so I (and others) are well armed with the relevant information.... would be so grateful.

• I understand that parents have the right to ask the schools for their children to go part time until their kids are five. AM I right in thinking the schools have the right to refuse this request?

• HOw will this right to defer work in practice? Doesn't it meant that primary school teachers are going to have a nightmare as children excercise this right and drift in and out as they please -some in januaary some in april etc.

Thanks!

also if some children choose to defer to janauary and others in april - will it affect the schools funding?

Hi kattyo

Thanks for bringing in some important information and points in here, but would like to take slight 'issue' with your last statement re; 'drift in and out as they please'

This is not what deferred entry is about, well not to me, at least. If my child is not ready for formal Ed in September I'm not looking to be able to drop in and out until the law requires her to have a formal committment.

Sorry, just typed in a rush, and did not meant to imply you were approaching this lightly. i'm interested in this topic as i am considering deferring myself.

i was thinking more how this policy is going to work for primary schools, without being disruptive. previulsy there were two form entrys - september and january, and the schools did not have to hold a place if someone chose to defer until their child turned five. Now, as I understand it, parents have the right to defer entry - and have the place held - until the spring or summer term. I was wondering whether the schools were going to be resistant to this change - and how it would work - as it could meant that the reception year now has a signficant number of children coming in at different times, without the school being set up in an organised way to deal with this (as it was with two term entry). i was also wondering what it could mean for funding - because if the schools don't get the money until the children are in the school, surely they are going to be resistant to allowing parents to excercise the right to defer entry. (or maybe they do get they money).

The fact that neither the education woman at the council or two school headteachers could answer this question (and with two promising to get back to me and never doing so) makes me worry how this is going to work in practice.

that's ok then - i really am serious about this too, and you sem to be asking the same sort of questions i have going round in my head too. What I think, in our area anyway, is that allocations don't happen for at least a month, maybe 2...so you can't ask 'your' head how they feel about it.

The document you need is the School Admissions Code www.dcsf.gov.uk/sacode/

This is statutory guidance to LAs. Your Local Authority should know it inside and out and should be aware that it directs them to keep the school place waiting for the child. It was issued more than a year ago and is fairly central to how they operate. There's no excuse for them to be in ignorance of its contents at this late date.

I'm sure you won't have any fight on your hands if you just fire off a quick note quoting to the LA from this document so they can look it up. They should be quite embarrassed to have overlooked this. That isn't to say that the school and LA might not try to discourage you from choosing deferral. Many LAs seem to be leaning on parents with the argument that earlier is always better and the old peer pressure tactic. ("Everyone else is starting in September; do you want your child to be the odd one out?") But it should be straightforward to exercise the option if you are clear that it's what you want.

That's really useful information Saracen, thanks very much for that.

Is there anyone about who has delayed their child's start in school?

Would you mind sharing as to why you chose to do this? Please.

Thanks Saracen.
I can tell you why I want to delay, glynis. i do not want them to go full time five days a week and be exhausted. i think it is too much for them. i think the benefits outweigh the gains - particularly as they have a very active social life outside of school. also, i want them at home because i enjoy their comany, and they enjoy mine.

they are march babies (would have been mid-April, but born a few weeks early) so they would by no means be the youngest in the year. but a january start seems sensible to me.

also while i think one child will be just about ready to go - definitley ready by january - the other is not quite there yet. and my child rearing philosophy seems to be, don't push them, wait till they're ready and then you don't have a fight on your hands (this includes the luxury of having the time to wait - so not putting htem into nursery until six months ago meant i was never worried about getting them out of nappies, which they did when they were just past two happily and with little fuss). i want them to find school fun and exciting. not an exhausting drag.

(they find three days at nursery too much).

I would start in Sep and send her mornings only, including lunch.

but is that at the schools discretion? or do i have a legal right to get this (not just ask for it)? i've heard that the schools i've applied for are unwilling to do part time.

There is nothing new about the legal age for starting school. When my DS was 4 in 2000 the law was the same, ie a child must be in school the term after their 5th birthday.

I know this because I considered deferring his start. I believed he was not yet ready for school at 4 and I did not see the need to rush him to school. I turned down the "free" nursery classes as well. In the end I chose not to defer because he would have joined the class on his own when all the others were established and I feared he might be left behind.
In those days, unlike now, they started teaching reading and writing at the very beginning of school. As it turned out he was absolutely fine, although as others have said, very, very tired.
The issue of places at school is a different matter. We used a tiny village primary where the reception intake was 5 children.

You should be able to defer entry as that is your legal right, but regretably some schools still do not seem to understand this.

You do need to understand that you cannot defer for the year and that most schools will expect your child to start after Christmas. The reason for that is very simple, the funding for the year from April to April is determined mainly by how many children are on the register on a set date in January. If you have properly defered entry which has been agreed with the school then your place is protected and in theory you could wait till after Easter but most schools feel it is better for the pupil to be in school after Christmas.

If you are going to defer you need to formally accept the place when offered and then afterwards go and talk to the head and tell them that you wish to defer entry till after Christmas.

Thanks. That's very helpful.

yes, thanks from me too re; the legalities

kattyo

i think we have similar concerns about the length of the school day

DD struggles with 2 1/2 hrs each day at present.

i've had a bit of a day today since posting the OP, so if you don't mind, i will be back again tomorrow

We have had DD going mornings only for the first two terms of reception (so she integrates, but also doesn't get exhausted). She's doing fine (although is not full time yet) and seems to do a lot at home.

We asked the head, and then just announced to the school that this was what we were doing. They were a bit and somewhat defensive, but it has worked for DD and she is doing very well in her class (and well in both literacy and numeracy).

This thread is really interesting to me as my DD was born at the end of August 2008 so could start school in September 2012 less than a week after turning 4. She started nursery when she was 2 for just two 2.5 hour sessions a week. She loves it and is very bright and able but as she is so young she still just parallel plays with her peers and she's very quiet, not shy or timid just quietly, independently trotting along. She's VERY keen to learn and is itching to learn to read. I will be talking with her nursery a great deal next year as I'm strongly considering defering. I want to make sure her social skills have had a chance to develop before she starts formal learning. My DH thinks I just don't want to let go of her and that I could be causing more harm than good. It's a way off and a lot may depend on which school we get. The catchment school is dire and the out of catchment schools vary from a 15 intake to a 90 intake.

"a lot may depend on which school we get. The catchment school is dire"

One possible advantage of a willingness to send your daughter to school a bit later is that you may be in a better position to get her into a school you prefer. Once September has come and gone, many parents who were hoping for a popular school will have resigned themselves to sending their children to a different one. Then if a place later comes up at their preferred school, they may be reluctant to unsettle their children with a move. On the other hand, if your child has stayed on at nursery or home, you can wait and hope a place comes up later on.

Three families I know in my neighbourhood didn't send their children to Reception in September because they weren't offered a school they were happy with. All of those children were in suitable schools by Easter. (Their cases were slightly different to yours because they'd been offered places at schools which the parents felt were too far away, but it's the same principle.) Of course, if a school place hadn't materialised, the parents would have had to choose between sending their children to whatever school they were offered or home educating them, but they were no worse off for waiting a few terms and hoping to get lucky.

Does anyone know the legalities of part-time attendance? My dd2 will be 4 in Aug and is due to start in Sept at the grand old age of 4 and 3 weeks. I don't want to delay the start as such, because she is keen to go to big school with her friends and her sister and is excited about it. Ideally I'd like to send her for 3 full days a week, with a couple of days off to recover. Am I allowed to do this and is there anything I can show to school which proves it? Thanks

I agree with all of you that LEAs should know what the laws say but many times the people you speak on the phone to are not the ones who make the decisions and obviously I don't understand how they are qualified to answer if they have no knowledge! You tell them to pass the phone to someone more knowledgable "no, I am as good! You didn't get into your option 2/3 school either just because ..it was not your option 1 and was not rated high enough"!!!!

In such cases to simply turn to mumsnet :)

It was meant to be we simply

Runoutofideas: As I understand it you are allowed to ask the school to let you go part time until your child is five (or up until the start of the summer term, whichever is the sooner). That is part time in terms of number of days, or shorter days. However, the school is not legally obliged to offer you this, and can refuse. My local schools don't give this option. However, they are legally obliged to hold the place for you if you defer until the child turns five (or until the summer term, whichever is earlier).

Saracen: did the children fit in fine going later?

Thanks kattyo.
I don't see the point of being "allowed to ask" if the school can still refuse though - not much of a right to anything is it really?
Hmm - think i'll wait until her place is confirmed then see what the head has to say about it.

Just to say -I hope you don't mind another perspective my DS started reception this September and he was always tired after pre-school and wasn't really any more tired after school - and reception should be really a continuation from pre-school/nursery i.e. playbased that is a much smaller change than you might think -and most reception children might feel a bit strange that they only came in the mornings or started late - but thats just my view

Our school is holding a meeting next week to discuss options.
Because this is new to our shool, before we had three in takes a year, our head teacher is not sure what will happen.
Talking to him last week, he is thinking that the summer born children may start in september part time. He is encouraging all to be full time by january, mostly because of the funding issue.
My dd will be four in june, i am planning on part time until january.