Homework policy - why is there generally more in prep schools?

[NorhamGardens]

This might be a stupid question but I question why there is such a heavy homework load at our local prep compared to our state primary?

We have a tiny bit of numeracy homework, about 10 minutes worth once a week. In the juniors it increases to 20 minutes a week. We don't do spelling tests but they do in the prep, they are tough and occur weekly.

Spelling tests don't work I am told. The local, non-selective, prep must be doing something right as 98% leave with level 5s.

Just a question about the academic rigour at a state versus a primary. Just wondering why they don't have higher expectations & demands re: homework in our primary?

Also what do state primary teachers feel, very generally, about children who are tutored?

It depends on the schools urely?

Our sate ahs a very high homework laod and the aprents campaigned for that to start from reception year (not me, I thought it was ridiculous; 30 minutes a night at 1ge 4? Nope).

OTOH the ASD Base ds1 will attend in September and the one ds3 attends produces very good academic results given starting points (to the surprise of many) with nary a nights homework involed as a matter of policy.

So I do think it's a matter of looking at the whole school results and the individual child. DS1 does not so his homework; it would be wrong to make him as it directly works against his whole school workload (complicated ASD stuff LOL) but I know ats chool I loved exciting homework projects- not maths stuff, more 'look up Chartism and tell the class five interesting facts' type thing.

The Perps I know of- well they do a lot right for sure, they are good aplces to elarn; but also they take less of a variety fo children initially- ds1 woudln't ever get in the local, neither would you be likely to find the chidlren of illiterate aprents whoc an;t help, or those who just do not care.

they also have an advantage often that many run until later to work around aprent's work needs (I know soem state schools do but not around ehre) so can supervide and facillitate homework in away many parents just could not- child in care isn;t going to ahve quiet space, child without PC access will be otherwiselimited.

I am not a state primary teacher but do know quite a lot (am in education dept at uni) and the consensus seems to be that the key is getting the child to be able to self support: no problems if that is achieved but some very bright children come through entirely coached and by year 6 they are needing to start being independent learners and not managing that. Certainly by uni I knkow some kids are coming through with excellent grades totally unable to self manage and falling out of the system. So I guess it's about balance.

Also is it really non selective?

For example are kids with SEN are forced out?

(In the state school they get TA support if they need it, in a prep school often the parents have to pay for it.... Which can easily force them out)

Are kids with bad behaviour forced out?

They are still obviously selecting on being able to afford the fees.....

Because of their high SAT results they are also selecting on parents who care about getting high SAT results....

You don't know those kids are getting a good education, or that they're happy, or that they're able to work independently, or that they're not taught to the test.....

All you know is that they're able to do well on one exam on one day of their school career.....

Because the majority of parents like homework and believe it is important for children. Most people paying for a prep school would wish their children to have homework.

However, state schools tend to follow research more and don't need to respond to parents so much. Current research suggests that homework is a waste of time. (And, I agree with this, having been an academic high achiever who had no homework set until secondary age).

Our school only sets homework because parents want it. (The school would have preferred not to) And, they managed to limit it to one piece a week, starting towards the end of year 2.

Also remember that prep schools (being private) don't have their sats results moderated, so their children might not be achieving what the school is telling people. This is something my sister experienced first hand whilst teaching at a small private school; they were telling all parents that their children had got level 5s but my sister - who had taught in state schools - didn't think the standard was actually level 5 standard.

Obviously, children are always expected to read at home.

I simply don't understand the argument 'spelling tests don't work'. How can't they work?
How do children get the confidence to start writing stories and poems if they can't spell the words?
I also think homework is useful because children are working in a quieter, less pressured, environment and working things out for themselves. (My dc, 6, are at a state school where they get 30 mins h/w a week, my SIL has 2 in private (8 yrs old) who get 35 mins a night! My SIL says it is very time consuming but believes it is worth it). Tutoring is endemic at the state school by the way.

One of our friends has just moved her child to a prep school in Y5. She is delighted with it, but this is what she observed:

• they send home an enormous amount of homework, a lot of it is worksheet based;

• they spend an awful lot of time prepping for the 11+ AND SATS.

She is worried that they are currently mainly being taught to pass tests (She is a teacher btw). Also her child has no time left for chilling out or doing other activities, as the main focus is the homework, almost to obsessive point. But that's just her observation.

I wouldn't be happy with that, but all private schools are different so that's just one experience.

Spelling tests 'don't work' because kids will learn the word for the test, but then forget it the next week.....

Kids need to be taught spellings, but they don't need to be tested on them in weekly tests...

I certainly also know of children who do very well in our local selective prep school, then pass the 11+ and go to the state grammar - and then totally fail their GCSE's because they were not bright, and had not learnt how to work independently, and could not cope with being expected to be self motivated.

If kids stay on in the private sector all the way to A levels, often they do terribly at university for the same reason....

It's a long term game we are playing when bringing up children. Their Y6 SAT results won't matter in the long term.....

Because parents like homework, despite the fact that it has practically no effect on children's academic achievement at primary level, and "he who pays the piper calls the tune"

I am also really dubious about the argument that spelling tests don't work.

Dd1 cannot spell, and she assures me that she is one of the better spellers in her class. She is in Y6, and only her Y5 teacher gave weekly spellings. Dd2 spells beautifully. She is in Y3 of the same school, but has had different teachers. She has had weekly spelling tests since Y1.

I know, a sample size of two children is not scientific, but I really wish that my oldest child had been taught how to spell. I have a horrible feeling that she is going to be rejected by an indie because of her poor writing skills . The teacher says poor spelling is not a problem, because it has a small weighting for Sats. Our school traditionally gets in the top 3 for our borough, but if the children can't spell, what use is that?

Spelling tests work.

So does learning times tables.

It's insane not to.

And they are about to change the nonsense that spelling and grammar don't matter in exams.

My dd used to get 100% for every spelling test she ever did in primary school - and her spelling is terrible - she just has an excellent short term memory and is good at doing tests. In year 9 she had a "Textails Folder"!

I really wish that my oldest child had been taught how to spell

Yes, she should have been taught how to spell. That does not imply she should have had weekly spelling tests.

I taught my dc to spell at home. Bluddy hours of it..and it worked. DS was mildly dyslexic, so we had lots of strategies for the tricky words with "ough" etc. If we hadn't done that grounding, he'd be in the dustbin by now.

what seeker says. Prep schools have to do what the parents want/demand them to do, which is generally to 'stretch' them (academically, sports, musically, whatever. It varies by school). Unless the parents can see clear blue water between the education they pay for and the one that comes free then they wouldn't pay for it. Doesn't mean the prep schools are better, just that they are different and have different emphasis.

Lots of homework might mean the kids do better compared against any other school (prep or state) that doesn't pile it on in terms of development at key stages, doesn't mean that they will do better once the foot comes off the gas and they have to think for themselves.

As for lower demands/expectations in Primary... some people might see that as a good thing. Education isn't all about academic development.

Sister worked in a prep school, considered to be the best in the area . She said the large volume of homework was to demontrate to parents they had bought the best as homework was the one aspect of school the parents saw

Yes, Indigo I understand that there are other ways to teach spelling. However, learning by osmosis is not a method I agree with. Dd always has a head in a book, but she does not absorb correct spelling.

When I was at school, we had to write out incorrect spellings 3 times once work had been marked. That is another way to teach spelling, but it does need to be taught IMO.

SPelling tests worked for me; allowing fro my typing (1) I can pretty much spell anything and never have to worry about uni essays wrt to grammar or spelling: for Dh OTOH who attened a school used to dry run (often abandoned) teaching research in the 70's / 80's it is his single biggest hurdle.

It's not the be all though- ds1 and ds2 both ahve dyslexia and manage some quite wonderful creative writing, poems etc. But it's a hurdle.

hullygully - entirely agree. We used to recite our times tables each day at our desks before assembly. I can still remember the sound of it (and hence the times tables)

I also agree wrt rote learning of tables. Tis the only way to drum it in. I bought a cd for my DD which we used to play in the car on the way to school.

My DD is at a private prep and gets a lot of homework. I see it as an opportunity to understand the work she is doing and to identify where I feel she might be struggling

Without homework I would rarely get the opportunity to see her books.

DS is in yr2 at a state primary. He gets a 20mins exercise per week, 10 spellings & minimum of 2 ORT books. So that's about 1 hr per wk. It seems excessive to me. Just wondered if others are including set reading in homework time estimates?

I didn't think DS did have a lot of homework - reading, buy not expected to happen every night, spellings (10/week, hardly the end of the world, and yes I do think it works) and times tables in Y3. TBH, all of it except reading (and even that sometimes ) got done in the 10 minute journeys to/from school (times table CD - intensely annoying, but the best £3 I have spent in a while).

Y4 onwards it is a long day, but absolutely no homework at all.

(private prep, BTW)

Hello NG

dd's state primary gives more homework than that (she is in Y2): this week she had 2 pages of numeracy, a page of geography questions to answer, ten spellings, and 2 pages of literacy (changing sentences to include correct use of commas etc).

I think it depends a lot on individual schools, no? And even class teachers...

I don't ever get a chance to see their books whilst they are at primary school, excluding parents evening. Weekly homework is in a separate book.

Good point that you then don't get to see the weaknesses you could reinforce at home. As my DC is doing ok, it's fine if they get to the expected target at the end of Y2, I've been told that there is nothing to do or worry about.

When I got the books at the end of Y1 I made a list of every single spelling error, for example, and routinely taught my child every one. They now know all of these.

I would say that spelling tests used to work for the vast majority. Being taught spelling rules is more important.

Also homework doesn't have to mean dull worksheets, children could be set interesting activities (with a bit of imagination) to reinforce learning.

I wish I had more time to go through the NC myself and reinforce at home. Thing is I wouldn't know the order it was taught anyway so would probably not do much good.

Preps seem to be generally more transparent about what's going on in the classroom and that can only be a good thing surely? Thnks for the responses so far, I've enjoyed reading them.

My DD is in Y1 at a private school overseas. She gets homework every night for at least 40mins, inc spellings, reading, maths investigation of some description, a written literacy and greek twice a week. I find the written literacy piece of homework very useful as it gives me a good idea of her standard and ways of moving her forward. It is usually something topic based so also keeps me up to date with what new topics are being covered. She does though finish school at 1.30 so she has plenty of time to do homework and then another activity, ballet etc. I am not sure if I could cope with getting home at 4 and then starting the homework, tea, bath etc routine!!