Children who are always late for school

[RoadArt]

OK, I am following on from the holiday in term time post and a valid point that someone has just raised about the message we are portraying to our kids that its ok to take time out of school and how this will affect their mind set when they are older and they will think its ok when they are working.

On this point, I am amazed at the number of parents who allow their children to be late to school, some every day, others maybe once/twice a week. It tends to be the same parents, the same excuses and the children get marked in the late register every day.

Isn't this just as bad? Its disruptive for the teacher/class when a child walks in late, and it teaches the child that its ok to be late, so as they get older, they never meet their friends on time, they get a job but dont arrive on time - because mum said was ok when they were little.

Timekeeping is really important, so why do parents think its ok for their children to be late to school on a regular basis?

There is no excuse for a child to be late for school. Everyone knows the starting time.

I really don't have a problem with lateness if it's for a valid reason - dropping other kids off,genuine problems for example.

However, at my DD school, there is one family who live a 2 minute walk from school and are late EVERY day - and the mother appears to view the school pick up as some form of free childcare, there for her, so she doesn't have to get her arse there at 3pm, like the rest of us. This is the same family that whenever you go to her child's birthday party, you NEVER get a thank-you for the present that you have bought the child.

It's the implied "I'm more important than you" that I can't bear.

I have taught in a college for years, and it is so bloody irritating to have the same people arriving late all of the time - it takes you away from the students who are considerate enough to arrive on time, and fucks me off immensely.

I detest being late, and genuinely can't understand what is so difficult about arriving on time for stuff (again understanding that sometimes it is unavoidable). I manage to get myself out of bed, get a baby ready and a 6 year old, on my own, and arrive on time everyday - what is so difficult about that? It may get a bit harder when the baby becomes a toddler, but I managed to do it with my DD1. Yes, there are days when I run around like a headless chicken, and raise my voice too much, and arrive by the skin of my teeth....

There is even a parent at DD school who seems to revel in her child being late all the time, and in encouraging him to be consistently naughty, and quite frankly, a pain in the arse for the teachers at the school - that child takes valuable time and attention away from the other pupils, who are behaving. She is basically creating a selfish little shit, who thinks that he is the centre of the universe.

I don't think anyone objects to lateness that is occasional, or a result of extenuating circumstances - it's more the selfish, inconsiderate stuff.

As a teacher I fully understand the occasional hiccup that causes a lateness; that's life. But a quick question to the few posters that think regular lateness is fine - is it OK to be that late, that regularly collecting your child as well? What worries me is that parents that think lateness is not an issue are often the parents that view school as free child care (as and when they do or don't want it) rather than education.

There are children who are regularly late being picked up.I'm talking about more than 15 minutes. One mother often says she "forgot" ! How can you forget you have a child to pick up from school?? Especially a 5 year old? We finish at 3.15. The child was still waiting to be collected when I left at nearly 4pm!

There is a recent report from Wales

?If a child is 15 minutes late for school a day, it means the equivalent of losing two weeks of school per year."

At my friends DC school they went for a day out to the beach last week and the teacher made a unilateral decision that the children were having such a good time, and it was such a lovely day ,they'd stay an extra half hour.
Not a thought given to the parents who may have other important plans, other children to collect and so on.
Also what about all the time the teachers don't finish on time, that's just as bad, in fact worse than a child being late because it affects so many parents/families.

Its not teachers not finishing on time, in my experience, its the disorganisation of children who find it impossible to get their bookbags,lunchboxes,sweatshirts,coats,assorted school letters and any toys/other items (that shouldn't be in school anyway),without asking me or the teacher to help them. That's 20 children milling about saying "Miss, I can't find my...(whatever)" when you've already asked them several times to get everything together ,10 minutes before school finished. Hence lining up to be escorted out takes forever. Sorry if that messes up your schedules. And by the time you get outside somebody has STILL left something,and you have to go back in to look for it.

'Its not teachers not finishing on time, in my experience, its the disorganisation of children... '
.. exactly and that's exactly how it is for parents in the morning

Would you turn up late for work everyday?

There is a minority of persons who turn up late for work on regular basis too mrz. Some people are always late, and they are a minority. I do not think you can resolve that at all.

exactly and that's exactly how it is for parents in the morning

Except it's easy for you to get up 15 minutes earlier to sort your crap out. I can't end an assembly 15 minutes earlier because your child doesn't know how to put their gloves in their coat so they don't get lost.

Sunscorch......seriously are you ok?

In all the jobs I've had if I turned up late on a regular basis I would soon be unemployed.

ariadne1...yes but you don't have a classfull to contend with. I have 3 children,myself, and I have always worked. I think the times I have been late,for either,(and it would have been for major mishaps) you could count on the fingers of one hand.
I consider myself a disorganised person, but I know how to time myself so that I am not late for things...I HATE being late.

My Y4 class has 29 pupils in it. Three of whom are late four days out of five. Another two of whom are late twice a week.

Occasionally the reason is a dawdling sibling, a forgotten PE kit that child has dashed home to get etc. but, more often than not there is no reason beyond, "there's no reason".

The school bell goes at 9am, I have finished the register by 5 past and start teaching Literacy or Numeracy moments later. I have never recapped because a child has missed the start of a lesson due to sloppy lateness e.g. walking slowly from the bikeshed/football area and 'child-initiated lateness' (I'm not talking about school refusers or those with anxiety issues, just those who have no sense of urgency about anything). However, our recent change of Head has resulted in a recent change of registration time too; we are now expected to keep our registers in class until 9.20am so latecomers can be registered by the teacher and disrupt everyone's learning instead of signing in at the office as they used to . Latecoming children, who've already signed in at the office, would hand me a 'latecard' and slip into the lesson without halting the learning of their peers.

The new, extended registration, presumably designed to improve the school's punctuality figures, sends the wrong message completely, "It's fine to come to school late; your parents will no longer have to sign you in at the office and themselves be on the receiving end of questions about why you are late. You, aged 8 or 9, will have to further alienate yourself from your classmates by causing your teacher to stop teaching and then, two of your classmates will have to miss out on yet more learning time to take the register to the office!". I hate this system with a passion and have put my foot down in terms of children taking the register to the office 15 minutes into my lesson but I can't not register the children.

What I find most frustrating in this new situation is that the 'regularly late, but with no reason' parents have now reduced the learning time for every child in the school by 20 minutes every day .... what was the Welsh '15 minutes a day' calculation mentioned earlier....?

Oh, and I have raised this with the Head. I've been ignored. Three times .

"There is no excuse for a child to be late for school. Everyone knows the starting time."

Judgey, much?

There is every excuse for some families. DD2 is regularly late, by more than 5 minutes.

DD1 goes to special school. There are major roadworks taking place on our route to school. The route is unavoidable (they are on the main road. We live at the top of the main road, the school is (much!) further down the road.

DD1's escort collects DD1 after collecting another girl in her class. That girl lives in the next village. The bus has to drive to the other girl's house, then come through the roadworks to get DD1 before taking them all to school.

They frequently arrive between 08.45-08.50. DD2's school opens their doors at 8.50 and school starts at 09.00.

I can't leave the house before DD1 gets on her bus. I often have the other children in the car waiting, and after handing DD1 to her escort I jump into my car and go to DD2's school.

Fortunately, DD2's teacher completely understands (lives not too far from us) and has said that DD2 will not be given a 'late mark' because they know that we simply can't help being late.

So,Lougle, you have a perfectly valid and understandable reason, which school accepts.

You are not, therefore, a problem.

The problem, as people keep pointing out, is for those who " just are" late, and it is always the same ones. They know the starting time of school, but there really is no excuse other than the parents can't get themselves organised to get their children to school on time, AND couldn't give a stuff about it.

jamdonut - must admit that your comment about disorganised children really incensed me. DS1 has SNs and very poor organisational skills. He is in year 4 and has never been late for school.
I would be spitting bricks if I thought that any of his teachers had had that attitude with him. Yes he needs more help - as do at least 7 more in his class that I know of, so there could be more.
I am one of those parents that stands outside and checks that he has everything that he should have with him - and sends him back if there is something missing. If I have the decency to send my DS to school on time, with the correct uniform, signed letters, homework done etc, the same respect should be shown in returning him.

I am a year one teacher in a big city. Fairly mixed area. 3 persistently late children.

I understand that sometimes circumstances mean that it is impossible to get a child to school on time, and personally I never never punish the child for coming in late.

My issue is with persistently late families who are not doing everything within their power to get their child in on time. A persistently late child's education is not going to be of the same quality as an on-time child's, simple as that. If a parent is willing to put up with that for the sake of an extra half hour in bed then on their head be it.

In terms of returning the little darlings on time - I always do. I thoroughly enjoy my six and a half hours a day with your little lovely, but that is all thank you very much. You are most welcome to them at 3.30. Maybe even 3.26 if it's been a long day.

"So,Lougle, you have a perfectly valid and understandable reason, which school accepts.

You are not, therefore, a problem."

The statement I was challenging is:

"There is no excuse for a child to be late for school. Everyone knows the starting time."

Clearly, there is an excuse for some children some of the time. There is an excuse for a minority of children all of the time.

In fact, let's face it, there is likely to be an excuse for all children on occasion.

Sorry Lougle what excuse is there for a child to be late all the time?

I agree that regular lateness is bad patenting and also antisocial
Ok once or twice a year - although most parents manage to endure that their kids are never late during the whole of the 12 years of compulsory school.

Bad parenting

I'm sure everyone accepts there are occasional circumstances that are unavoidable and some a "long term" such as the roadworks Lougle describes but presumably they aren't going to be a permanent feature.

As a teacher I had a child who was late every day which meant that either I waited for him to arrive before I began teaching meaning the class weren't taught for the first 30-60 mins of every day or he missed all the teacher input for the first lesson each day. At the end of the year the child was significantly behind the rest of the class and two years later remains behind