Concerns about teaching and finding out DD's ability level without seeming pushy

[purplearmadillo]

Sorry that this is long, but I am feeling really anxious and I don't know how to tackle this, so any guidance would be really appreciated.

DD is in year 1, in a mixed year 1/year 2 class. She moved schools in the May half term of reception.

In her nursery/pre-school and first primary school, we had consistent feedback that she is very bright and she was in the top group of 5 children in her old class of 30.

There is a lot of concern being voiced by other parents about DD's class teacher and her ability to manage what is a big class for the school with children with very different abilities. We have had one parents evening, which was not very enlightening, and I came away feeling DD is viewed as very average and a bit lazy.

However, she is on the lime book band (I know this isn't everything but its the only vaguely objective measure I have available) and she can already complete all of the maths sheet she bought home for SATS level 1a and when I asked the teacher, I was told she wouldn't get anything further until the next school year as "parents get frustrated if they move up to 2C this year and they then don't see any progress in the following year ". Despite that, there also seem to be some obvious and big gaps in what she can do, for example she seems to be doing more complex maths without really having learned the basics.

So, sorry the background is long, but I'm not sure what to do. I do think DD can be lazy, but I also don't think she is being taught at her own ability level or being pushed. For example, the parent evening feedback was that if the class was given a maths exercise with 3 sections, and told they had to do at least 1 section, DD would do that 1 quickly and then stop. Given that she is just 6, I feel that the teacher or TA should be walking round and making sure that they all keep working.

I don't want to make a fuss and be viewed as a pushy parent, but DDs education is important to me and because she's my first child, I don't want to miss out on following up on things that are important because I am embarrassed about raising it. I don't want them to treat her as average and for it to become a self fulfilling prophecy. Any tips for what I should do? Specifically:

1. Is there a parent friendly site that can help me understand the national curriculum so that I can see what she should be doing this year.

1. Is it naive to expect a state primary school to push children individually?

1. Is it acceptable to ask the teacher how able she is in comparison to her peers?

1. Assuming I am right about her abilities, can I expect the school to support that, i.e. should she be held back on the same maths level for 2 terms as is being suggested?

1. If the teacher is poor, is there anything at all that the parents can do about it or are we stuck with her, potentially for the rest of this year and the whole of the next year if she teaches DD in year 2 as well?

Hey,

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask your daughter's teacher how well she is doing compared to her peers.

My fiance and I are having some trouble telling whether his daughter (P1) is struggling with basics or just a bit lazy with us during homework in the house and quizzes in the car (counting and sounds). We plan to ask our kiddo's teacher exactly how well she is doing, including how she holds up compared to her peers. She will be moving an entire grade level with them come August. If she is well behind by then, I'm worried that it might affect how well she does in school the following years.

Maybe I am just an unembarrassed pushy parent. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a teacher to push or at least encourage your child, even at a young age. Our daughter gets easily frustrated with her schoolwork, at least when she is with us. If we don't push her, she won't do it - Barbie and teddies are always more fun than math.

Can't help with your other questions. I too would love to find a parent-friendly site with a list of what a P1 should be able to do by midterm and end of term.

You might find the teacher wont tell you where your dd is against her peers. Some teachers do, some dont.

A lot of parents have the same issues and concerns as you, but in most cases the teachers do know what they are doing.

A big issue is that children do not perform at school as well as they might at home. Whether its because they dont want to stand out, find it too boring, too much noise/distraction, dont understand what the teacher is telling them, so the teacher doesnt actually see what a child is capable of doing. They might practice something at home one way, and the teacher presents the same question in a different way, and because they havent thoroughly understood the concepts, cant answer the question.

Most teachers do try and extend to a level they can cope with in the class. But their main focus in teach the average and help those who are struggling to bring them up.

If she is is Year 1 then there will be lots of gaps, they are only just starting to learn the curriculum and there are lots of areas to cover.

Sometimes we "teach" our kids at home to do certain aspects of maths without them really understanding the basic, and they move on and then struggle later because they missed those first concepts.

I also used to ask questions, but have found it does depend on how responsive and cooperative the teacher is in giving information.

I hate the usual message of "she is doing well" "she is fine". When I asked are there any areas she is struggling with, I got the same responses. At no time have any teachers told me that my children have struggled with certain aspects of maths, and yet I have observed through learning at home that they do have gaps.

The teachers, as much as they do a fantastic job, cant cover the needs of every single individual child.

As you are concerned, why not arrange a meeting and ask the questions you want to know. There should be no reason why the teacher wont give you this information other than making comparisons.

Where a child comes in a class position depends on the abilities of all the other children. A child could be top in one class but bottom in another depending on how good/bad academically the other kids are, so its hard to make direct comparisons.

Teachers cannot tell you where she is in comparison to children in her class - only in comparison to the national average.

There is no year 1 curriculum, only levels which they work through. The kid does work at the level they ate at regardless of what year they are in. For example my DD in year 3 is working at a level 1 but my DS in year 2 is working at level 3.

If you think she would be in the top third nationally then she should get levels 3 at the end of year 2 and level 2s at the end of year 1.

There is really nothing you can do about a weak teacher.

There are loads of workbooks you can buy which say year 1 on them which will give you an idea of the kind of things she should learn this year. But as work should be more differentiated than those work books they don't tell you all that much.

The key word is differentiated. That means the teacher should be giving all children in the class work that is the right level for them. There is no ceiling on what the teacher can teach them. When your child knows level 3 stuff they start on level 4. (although it's not really linear like that, but you get my general point)

limebooks are level 3. That doesn't necessarily mean she is a level 3 in Reading, because Reading doesn't just refer to how well you can read a book. However her Reading skills are clearly very good.

''For example, the parent evening feedback was that if the class was given a maths exercise with 3 sections, and told they had to do at least 1 section, DD would do that 1 quickly and then stop.''

If you were told this at a parent's evening then the teacher must realise this is happening in class, i.e. they must realise she has finished early - so clearly there is a missed opportunity there.

I would be concerned and talk to the teacher (and I hardly ever speak to the teacher). I think it is unwise to let children get into the habit of coasting in class - it's something I would want to nip in the bud asap. You can only hope the teacher responds - but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.....

These concerns have been raised about the junior school dd is due to go to and if I see it happening I will be in there like a shot.

Differentiation seems very subtle in Y1 and children do have a tendency to coast (to different degrees at school).

My DD1 brought back a piece of writing, which had been assessed by the teachers, and I was shocked at how bad it was! I asked her whether she wanted to play teachers and correct it and most of the spellings she knew how to spell once looking at certain words again.

I think this is fairly typical, as we get work marked as "independent" and work marked as "with teacher's help". I'd say that the work she does at home is probably a whole level ahead of what she does at school as I am sat there going "remember what do you we need now?" "are you sure you've spelt that right?" etc etc...same goes with maths.

So there could be an element of that. Children at this age also seem to love doing things "fast" and that sometimes mean they focus on speed rather than quality! But maybe that's just what I have observed.

I would go in and talk to the teacher with specific examples of things you would like her to pick up, but I would pick one or two things rather than a generic one.

We sometimes go and ask for the teacher to listen to DD read as the tendency is to leave her on the same level forever (TA listening and just giving more of the same as not allowed to actually put the kids to the next level) so we go in when we feel the gap between what she is reading at home and what she is reading for school is getting a bit ridiculous.

Hope that helped somehow!!!

I asked my son's YR teacher in this way:
"His nursery teacher said (honestly) that his reading by next December will be ahead of most children's, he is bright and we should make sure that in his new school he won't be pushed back to average but will continue from his own level". This was true and the teacher's reply was that they do do maths tailored for his needs ahead of other children's, he is bright etc. Maybe you could mention your last ...lala ahem meeting with her nursery or review which/who mentioned his need for advanced differentiation from the average. But they still said that his reading level was ok where he currently is (not happy) and I explained that he does understand but doesn't want to answer or knows how to give the answer and I know how to insist. Or they should try to teach them how to answer better etc. And still they ..can't push him too far ahead from the rest (as if he is some kind of a genius!). From what I know he could have been in a class with more abled children, it's just a deprived area.

Thanks everyone for the responses, it is a very difficult area I think.

I think both DH and I are "academic" so keen on learning and keen to push her but neither of us are pushy at the school so we don't tend to ask the questions that I see other children asking.

I like the idea of asking where she would be expected to be in terms of the NC at the end of next year, that should give me an indication, I would definitely expect her to be in the top third.

A couple of people here have used the phrase "coasting" and that is definitely what I feel she is doing, whether that is so terrible at her age, I'm not sure. She is also happy and rounded, she does 5 after school clubs, none of which she is willing to give up on, all in different areas (music, tennis, swimming, rainbows and ballet) so she is getting exposed to lots of things and enjoying school. She also reads one of the rainbow fairy books to herself at least every day at the moment, because she is enjoying them so much ! I think I will watch and observe until the next parents evening, which is in about 6 weeks I think, and then go in armed with a very long list of questions. If anything else worries me sooner, I will make an appointment to see the teacher.

Its so difficult to find the right balance, not to mention making sure I am also spending enough time with DS who is 3.

Ask all your questions and let the teacher give you the answers. This in itself will be a great way to see how the teacher reacts. You may need to give the teacher some advance warning so they can prepare.

Good teacher - will have no problem telling you their levels. Will explain what they mean - if it is expected. They will probably say 'don't worry they are still so young.' but they will give you facts and an opinion on how they feel your child is doing.

It is also useful to ask where your child is in relation to the class. Bottom, middle, top. A confident teacher will tell you if the class is high achieving, full of summer children etc - all these things can make a difference.

If the teacher gets defensive and makes you feel bad or 'pushy' and cannot answer these questions - then that should raise some flags. You have a right to know, letting you know in detail how your child is doing is part of a teachers job. It should never feel confrontational.

If you do have so many questions then you wont get time to ask them in the 5-10 minutes assigned to you at parents evening and then you will get more frustrated.

If you really are concerned taht your DD isnt making the effort at school, this is a habit that is hard to break. However, also, a lot of schools dont push or extend the infant children (sorry, ours doesnt) they focus more on developing their social skills and the academics come later.

6 weeks is also a long time for you be worrying and concerned. Why not make an appointment now.

I fully understand where you are coming from. I get stressed when I see the poor quality of work in my DC school books, yet at home they are capable of so much more, but the teachers dont seem to be aware of it.

I saw a comment below about the mum who plays teacher at home and corrects the spelling.

You will find in Y1 they are trying to encourage children to develop story writing and not focus on how words are spelt. They want children to be aware of the phonetic sounds and quite often children do not put any vowels in. Some teachers then correct this when marking, others might not until a later time.

If the teacher focusses too much on spelling and punctuation in the early days then the children worry about this and do not develop creative thinking.

Its very hard not to correct a child when you see them writing but the teaching policy is not to interfere in the early days.

Marking my place. We have a similar issue with DD who started reception in Sep. She can already read well and has a good grasp on numbers, etc. Her teacher described her as very able. This is lovely and I am obviously pleased but I get the feeling that she coasts along a bit. DD often tells me she is bored but I don't know whether I should or how I would tell the teacher that. I know they are aware she can read but they never read with her as they are not doing reading as yet which indicates to me that there is little differentiation for her abilities but OTOH I am not sure that matters at this stage. DD is our first born so we are stumbling along not knowing whether we should go with the flow as it may turn out that they all level off by year one or something and DD is in fact not particularly bright or whether we are letting her down by not asking whether they cater for her abilities and then looking at other options. Its not hepled that my friends school does things so differently and her recpetion aged daughter is often given extension work but DDs school don't do this.

DD's homework this week came home today and it's headed "year 2 maths" so I think I probably need to back off a bit.

The stuff about not correcting spelling is interesting. I have heard before that many schools have a policy of not correcting spelling. Apparently DD's is corrected in her dedicated literacy lessons but not otherwise and I can see the sense in terms of just getting her writing.

I take on board the point about not having long enough to discuss what we want to at parents evening. I will start the discussion there and perhaps make a follow up appointment if there is more we need to talk about.