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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Would you be worried if a school didn't have a PTA?

31 replies

ButterPieify · 26/01/2011 12:08

The school we have signed DD1 up to doesn't have a PTA. It is in a very deprived area and could probably really do with all the help it could get, but the website says they have tried, but can't get enought interest.

On the one hand, surely this means that involved parents like us SHOULD send our kids there, and work hard for the good of every child.

On the other hand, WAIL. I actually want to HE, but keep having moral dillemmas re elitism and so on. My politics says I should send my kids with everyone elses, and work to improve things for everyone, but my heart sinks at the idea that I'd be the only parent (well, me and DH) volunteering for anything or getting involved...

Am I being silly?

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jemimapotts · 26/01/2011 12:14

My DC's school didn't have a PTA when they started there. Along with a few others we set one up. It was hardwork but very rewarding. I ended up taking my DS's out of that school after 4 years, as one of them was badly bullied. There was also a limited pool of like-minded children which was part of the problem. The school's slowly changing. There are more middle class people now and the PTA is still going.
My principles made me send or DC there, and unfortunately in their case it didn't really work. Alot depends on how you think your DC will manage.
Mine are now in another school 3 miles away. They are really happy there.

Sazisi · 26/01/2011 12:18

Ooh. I'm not sure.
The schools (it's kind of the one school but there's a senior primary and a junior primary) my DD1 and DD2 go to don't have one either - similar scenario, deprived area. A big proportion of the parents would have drug/alcohol problems.
The principal of the senior primary has tried with coffee mornings and fund raising ideas etc, but it's always the same 3/4 parents who turn up so has never quite kicked off.

The schools are categorised 'disadvantaged' though, so get extra funding to keep class sizes low etc (DD3's class has 16 children which is great for her because she has Aspergers and can't deal with too much noise and distraction). This is Eire, don't know if there is similar support available to deprived schools in UK.
Academically, both my girls have thrived there so far.

polarfox · 26/01/2011 12:21

Ours doesnt so interested in this therad. I think HM likes to keep parents at bay at all costs, and would rather never discuss anything with them, she prefers not to know their opinions/thoughts and obviously critisisms!!
We are not in deprived area, and I doubt the turnout would be massive, however it's something that annoys me too..

Sazisi · 26/01/2011 12:24

I can relate to what Jemima says about there being a limited pool of like-minded children; DD1 has always fared well socially, but DD2 has more social difficulty and I don't think the fact that her year in particular are a fairly rough bunch helps her much.

IndigoBell · 26/01/2011 12:24

I think the PTA isn't really all that helpful to the school - it is more helpful socially to the parents.

A good PTA will raise a few thousand pounds a year - but the whole school budget is a few million. So not making much difference....

jemimapotts · 26/01/2011 12:29

Agree with Indigo. Our school was in a disadvantaged area and the head was able to apply for all kinds of grants. Presumbly that will all change now though.....
The PTA was great for getting parents from different faiths etc talking, especially the school fairs.
It was so difficult for my DSs. They had hardly anyone to play with after school. Now they have a good circle of friends, and are actually achieving more academically.

propatria · 26/01/2011 12:30

Why not get involved in a PTA Indigo,you never know you might find you are totally wrong,

IndigoBell · 26/01/2011 12:33

propatria - as a working mum I can't get involved in the PTA.

propatria · 26/01/2011 12:34

I am and do,as do several others I know.

BreconBeBuggered · 26/01/2011 14:17

Our PTA is almost exclusively run by working mums and is on the verge of collapse due to a perceived lack of support from other parents. I'm pretty certain that if it does fold the school will miss it much more than the parents. Having said that, it never crossed my mind when looking at schools for my DC to think about the PTA.

IndigoBell · 26/01/2011 14:24

as a working mum I can't get involved in the PTA. - I meant that all the PTA meetings happen during the day when I can't attend.

It seems not all schools run this way :)

suesfault · 26/01/2011 14:29

My DCs school didn't have a PTA when they started and tbh it wasn't something that I'd even thought about but if I had I don't think that in itself would have put me off.

Since then a PTA has been set up and has been very sucessful although I think the sucess depends very much on the parents who are willing and able to be involved.

afaik they meet on the evenings and so working parents can get involved and I think most of the members do work.

Greeninkmama · 26/01/2011 16:28

You don't have to go to the meetings to be involved though, Indigo - you can express an interest in helping and then just run a stall at the Christmas fair or do the clearing up. That's what I do.

Our school's PTA was on the verge of collapse last year, and the teachers and head were devastated. It is an inner-city school too with a fair amount of kids from deprived backgrounds. The stalwarts all have kids in the upper years, so I dread to think what is going to happen when they leave.

I think there probably are parents who would do things at the school, Butter, but you need a dynamic person to be chair. The headteacher will love you if you take that on.

Sinkingfeeling · 26/01/2011 20:42

Our school has a very small PTA and we're all working parents, most of us full-time.

I'm very well aware that the local primary schools which have good Ofsted reports, are situated in the 'leafier' areas and are over-subscribed also have thriving PTAs. Our nearest primary school is in one of the most deprived areas in the county, is just coming out of special measures and has no PTA. Coincidence?

I find your summary of PTAs as being generally useless very depressing, Indigo. We're told by our own school that the funds we raise (£8000 last year, clearly a drop in the ocean) do make a difference. We've refurbished the infant and junior libraries and restocked them with new books, built an outdoor classroom and installed a food tech/science room in the last couple of years. Perhaps we shouldn't bother any more though. I would certainly have a lot more free time if I didn't and perhaps could spend it socialising with my friends instead of with the awful PTA.

tinytalker · 26/01/2011 23:34

PTA's are more about raising vital funds for the kids benefit than providing a social scene for parents. I also resent the perception that PTA's aren't any use!
Our PTA has bought new laptops and books for the library and refurbishing the playground as well as providing the kids with some once in a lifetime experiences that they will hopefully remember for the rest of their lives. These are things that school budgets don't pay for and whilst they may not be educationally vital we are enriching the children's experiences. I for one am very proud of the work we do.
I think if there is no PTA in the school it does say something about the value the school puts on parental involvement as well as the general apathy of the parents.

superfrenchie1 · 26/01/2011 23:45

my eldest started at the community school in a deprived area which had no PTA. I'm a bit of a leftie and wanted to do the right thing by sending him there. it was AWFUL. whenever i tried to get involved, for example when i volunteered to help with reading, or offered to organise activities to bring parents in, the head just said no. i felt excluded from my childrens education. i wanted to be a part of it and be able to support them. none of the parents talked to each other (OK, the school was 75% Muslim and there were language issues). There were NO playdates or out of school things to do. there were NO after school clubs. the school was run down.

sorry, this is turning into a rant.

i moved ds as soon as i could and i have never, ever, looked back. new school has a very very active PTA which i can't keep up with, numerous clubs and societies and activities, and the PTA raised £25,000 in the 2009-2010 academic year which has paid for school trips, computers, sports coaches etc. plus without even meaning to we've made friends, and the dcs have a whole calendar of social events they can go to if they want.

BE CAUTIOUS and only go for that school if you do actually like it - in my limited experience having no PTA is indicative of more widespread problems...

superfrenchie1 · 26/01/2011 23:46

ps new school is a CofE state primary school. we got in without a church reference as ds was on the waiting list. yes i do feel guilty but i know it was the right thing for the dcs.

mackereltaitai · 26/01/2011 23:51

I would be very suspicious of a school without a PTA. The money a PTA raises may not be that much, but it buys a lot of stuff that makes a difference in a school. Much more important is the regular presence of parents in school, showing children that parents think school is important, and, frankly, ensuring that there are always people around keeping an eye on what is going on. I learn a lot from being around at PTA events.

Clary · 27/01/2011 00:56

To OP - I might be inspired to start a PTA? Get a few like-minded mums to do it?

indigo most of the mums on our PTA work AFAIK; and we welcome the involvement of those who don't come to meetings (tho ours are in the evening) in all kinds of ways.

The idea that a school with a budget of a few million (?? where is that btw? Ours is a lot less) won't need the PTA funds is silly.

The vast majority of a school's budget is allocated to pay staff saleries.

PTA money will usually go for extras that cannot be bought from the budget, like playground equipment, extra books, theatre trips etc.

Clary · 27/01/2011 00:57

Gosh I'm sorry, I can spell salaries honest.

Original poster

ButterPieify · 27/01/2011 02:30

No idea if the other option even has a PTA as the website doesn't come up on Google. I tend to have a low opinion of an organisation that can't even get it together to make a decent website - it's not hard, and it shows such disregard to the wider world not to have a website.

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suesfault · 27/01/2011 09:01

ButterPieify - not having a website isn't necessarily a bad reflection on the school. If you said how big the school is then I've missed it (sorry) but in a small school there won't be the knowledge to build a website in-house and they would need to pay someone to do it.

Personally whilst I agree that a website is a good thing I wouldn't want my DCs school to spend money on it if it meant that something else can't be bought.

Schools'funding is being cut drastically and good headteachers will be planning ahead and thinking about where money can be saved. Fancy websites shouldn't be top of any school's list.

Having said that I'm surprised that a school would have no web presence at all - have you tried finding it through the LA website. Is it a state school ?

potoftea · 27/01/2011 09:10

I've been involved with PTA for several years, but at our first meeting of this year only 2 of us turned up, with apologies from 2 others. But the rest just aren't bothered any more, and we can't seem to get new parents involved.
But if it does fold I don't think it'll make a difference to the school overall. We've raised money and done some fun or extra stuff for the boys but the main part of the school is the staff, and that won't change.

So I wouldn't be put off a school by the lack of a PTA, especially if the school would welcome one.

Original poster

ButterPieify · 27/01/2011 10:20

It's a state school with two form entry plus a special needs unit, and the other schools seem to have websites provided by the LEA, plus they do surestart activities and swimming classes, so it's hardly a small concern.

I'll ring them both up.

School-with-no-pta is in the middle of an estate where you can buy a two bedroom house for £12,000 - it is really not well off at all. I don't mind that in itself (we're not exactly rich) but to also have hints that the parents aren't involved is a worry.

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Original poster

ButterPieify · 27/01/2011 10:50

What can I ask on the phone without sounding like an arse? I'm just trying to work out what the general attitude is of a) the school toward involved parents and b) the parents towards the school.

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