Should he have grown out of this by now?

[coldtits]

Ds1 is going to be 8 in April.

he still reverses b, d, p, 9, 2, 5 and s. his spelling isn't very good - he knows key words but, for example, recently tried to spell tasted as "Tastid"

he has various diagnoses, but the rest of his class work, maths and understanding is very good.

I'm concerned about dyslexia. I cannot afford a private assessment.

re: reversing letters, does he get corrected when he gets them wrong?

re: spelling, do the school do spelling tests/ask them to learn spelling words. If so how does he do in these?

My DD is 7 and her spelling is dreadful but I am more worried about the school than about her, they didn't give them any spelling words to learn until this year (year 2).

Ask the teacher if she is concerned?

Coldtits - it doesn't matter at all whether your son has dyslexia or not. A dx of it won't open any magic doors. There is no diff as to how you would teach a child to read / spell whether they have 'dyslexia' or they are a poor reader / speller for some other reason.

So just concentrate on what you and school think his problems are and what you and school think the best thing to do about it is.

You can spend years or hundreds of pounds trying to get a dx of dyslexia. And at the end of it all you'll have is a piece of paper saying your son is dyslexia. But you won't have improved his spelling.

Indigo is correct a diagnosis of dyslexia is unlikely to open any doors especially as he is doing well in the rest of his class work.
Having said that if he is still reversing letters and numbers at age 8 I would be looking at a programme to work on this alongside quality teaching.
www.dyslexiacentre.co.uk/nessy/guests/guests/bdpfreebie.pdf

I have had a similar problem with my DS (aged 8- YR4) He was not the only one in the class with the same problem. There are 5 or 6 out of 30 the same, all typical boys, all lacking in concentration according to the headteacher.

The teaching methods used today are very different to when I was at school at his age! The children learn a much wider range of topics/information but don't spend much time on 'the basics' - only 1/2 hr per week handwriting practice

Ds also reversed b,d & p and a lot of his numbers were back to front

I have started to teach him handwriting myself (with the blessing and guidance of his teacher!) and he spends 5 minutes a day copying out numbers. I think the repetition has helped a huge amount both for the numbers and letters.

I was very proud of his maths test sheet today 9 out of 10 (!) but was far more happy that all the numbers were the right way round (yay). The extra work probably takes us about an hour a week (in short ish bursts) but it's really made a difference.

What I have started doing is pencilling sentences and getting him to write over the top. I figured that the repetition of making the letters might drill them into his head.

What do you think?

My ds is 8 and he still reverses 7,9,p,q, b and d and sometimes even J and his names begins with J!

I have mentioned it to his teacher and she says it is lack of concentration not dyslexia...FWIW is handwriting is also appalling but he reads well.

I do wonder though as I think dh maybe slightly dyslexic too.

Hey coldtits...I wouldn't worry about an external assessment atm.. it really makes no difference..
What does the school say and what school intervention is ds1 receiving ? Does he have small group work / 121 to help with phonics etc?
I have a yr 5 Ds1 who is 9, he still reverses quite regularly. He has mild dcd and dyscalculia but has had lots of support.
He does Units of Sound which is spelling and phonics on the computer, Nessy, another phonics group.
Fizzy which is gross / fine motor skills so helps with handwriting.
I'm sure your school will have the same sort of wave intervention. Ask if he is going to be included in any of these.
Also the school can do a basic assessment for dyslexia which will flag up any obvious problems. Do you have a Senco you can speak to about this?

Also I see a couple of teachers are saying it's lack of concentration,... personally I think that's complete rubbish IME reversal is more likely when they are trying to get a headful of ideas down on paper, or can confidently answer a question. They are concentrating on the content not the appearance.

Hi coldtits! I did similar with DS to start. I also went right back to basics and got him to write lines of each individual letter. I think the repetition really helps.

Have hope. We're doing joined-up writing now (like a grown up in DS's words bless im) Your DS sounds very similar to mine a year ago. For the past two weeks we have been practising 'joins' on letters (got a great worksheet from the teacher for this)and he is starting to get very proud of himself.

His target (set by himself- not me!) is to be the best writer in the class by the end of the summer holidays. He is a very competitive confident child who is really motivated at the thought of being 'the best' at something. He also earns playstation time by doing the work. I suppose you have to try and find what is the best 'carrot' for your DS.

None of this has come easily btw- I have now lost count of the times I have heard 'can I have a word Mrs Followill'.... at pickup time but it has been worth it so far....

Watch this space for desperate help needed with unruly teen

I don't know anything about the subject, so I can't generalise.

However, my dd reversed letters frequently until she was ten. She was never corrected unless she specifically asked whether she had them right way round.

She was home educated and I believed that if I just waited long enough, it was likely she would spontaneously improve. She did. Now she never reverses letters.

My son, who is now 10 and in Y6, was the same - I had other concerns too, though, (since he was at pre school, and I realised he was..mmm....more challenging than other children - he was what they called their "butterfly baby" as free choice was definitely not for him, unless they had planned 10 second activities..),

he was diagnosed with moderate to severe ADHD last year (Autumn term Y5).

He takes a low dose of a drug called Medikinet and is regularly monitored by his consultant.

I was VERY reluctant to medicate OR have diagnosis, but agreed to accept what the experts said....

He has gone from a level 2c in writing to a 4A since then...numeracy and literacy similar (Reading 5c from 3b). I am converted. And his friendship and personal relationships are better too.

I thought he had literacy problems, as the whole "late August birthday" thing was meant to allay my fears....but as it turned out - a diagnosis DID make a difference.

Catnoa - a dx of ADHD makes a diff - because there is something specific and diff to do to help ADHD. It is a dx of dyslexia that makes no diff at all.

Even if you need extra time in exams due to 'dyslexia' the dx of it has to be recent. Ie your secondary school will need to get you assesed in year 9 - they cannot use a dx done when he was in Y5.

And again not saying there is a trying particularly wrong with getting a dx. If school want to get him seen by an EP great. Just saying don't spend loads of money or loads of energy trying to get a dx. Instead spend your money and energy trying to help him with the problems you know he has.

Which is totally diff to ADHD where there is a magic pill.

A diagnosis of ADHD doesn't always make a difference (speaking as a mum of a ADHD /ASD son) he received no extra support at all in school

I would concentrate on practsing correct formation of the letters and nummbers he reverses. Writing letters and numbers is correctly as much a product of kinaesthetic memory as it is of 'concentration', in fact, I would say it is more so and the 'concentration' thing is a red herring!

I find that many of the children I work with have very poor letter formation. I spend enough time moaning about poor phonics teaching at primary without adding poor handwriting teaching to the litany...But I do sometimes wonder if they've ever been taught correct letter formation, or, been given plenty of opportunity to practice it.

I think that it is unlikely that a child will 'grow out' of letter/number reversal unless they are very self motivated.

children who form letters correctly are less likely to confuse b and d when writing because the starting point is very different. Overwriting is unlikely to help unless you watch to ensure the child forms the letter using the correct sequence of movements.

maizie I know my present class were taught to form letters correctly in reception (I taught them and they could all do it) so why am I now ranting daily about their letter formation?

Tbh - I'd disagree and say that in my experience a diagnosis of dyslexia can help sometimes. I say this because I have tutored some children who have been mildly to moderately dyslexic but this has not been picked up on by the school. At times this had lead to teachers saying that the child has made mistakes due to lack of concentration, whereas in actual fact they still make these types of mistakes consistently when they are concentrating. (Obviously I have the luxury of working one-to one with a child for an hour at a time and it is quite easy to see if a child is concentrating or not).
The children then sometimes get very frustrated and demoralised because they are repeatedly being told they are careless or not concentrating or not working fast enough by the teacher whereas in actual fact they are trying hard. (Or worse, have given up trying hard because they feel they cant get it right however hard they try). This is on top of the frustration they already feel because they know they are not getting things down on paper the way they would like.
A diagnosis of dyslexia can lead to teachers being more understanding, accepting that the child needs more time to get things down on paper, not telling them off if they make mistakes copying the date off the board etc. They may also make allowances to help the dc access the curriculum, that they did not do before the diagnosis (eg, not requiring the child to copy the the maths questions into his/her book, just do the working and answers).

In my experience the above scenario happens most often to the above average to very bright dyslexic child who has taught him/herself some coping strategies but whose reading/writing/spelling skills still do not match his/her overall abilities. The teacher can put this mis-match down to lack of concentration without investigating further and as they are still performing within the average ability band for their age they don't get flagged up as needing investigation.

Of course this may not happen in all schools but I have seen it happen often enough (even in a school where the SENCo categorically stated "He's not dyslexic" - and then found out he was) to suggest parents push for a dyslexia assessment where appropriate.

?Dyslexia causes difficulties in learning to read, write and spell. Short-term memory, maths, concentration, personal organisation and sequencing may also be affected.?

(Dyslexia Institute, 2002)

Of course mrz, concentration can be affected but I don't see how that negates what I have written. In some circumstances the children concerned were still having problems even when concentrating hard. The teachers were not understanding this, just telling them to try harder/concentrate or that they were being careless, without any understanding of the difficulties of their spld.

and do you think having a diagnosis will change anything? Teachers who don't look for reasons why children struggle or even worse don't recognise that children are struggling aren't going to adapt their teaching.

Dyslexia diagnosis can help, but only really if the school is denying there is a problem. I would hold off getting a diagnosis until you really need one.

However making them constantly copy over letters won't necessarily help. Do also be aware if they are dyslexic they may be extra tired at the end of a day at school as they will have been working extra hard.

Try to make extra work fun. Things we have done include; practicing spellings in shaving foam sprayed into a tray or onto a mirror, also to stop reversals we used to play a game where they had paper stuck to the wall and had to copy a letter I wrote with my finger on their back.

Actually mrz, once the children had a diagnosis, the teachers were more aware of their difficulties and were more helpful/sympathetic as I already explained and did adjust their teaching. It was often lack of experience/awareness that teachers were suffering from rather than downright laziness/lack of care.

I absolutely agree with you that having a diagnosis does not change the child's actual problem with reading/writing etc and there isn't a "cure", but, in my experience it can and does sometimes change the school's/teacher's perception of the child, the way that they teach them etc.

All I can say is the child was unfortunate in the first place if they required a diagnosis for mild dyslexia to be taught appropriately. Good classroom teaching methods would certainly meet the needs of all but the most severely dyslexic child.

My experience is that once you have a dx of dyslexia school thinks it's totally OK if you fail to learn to read and write - because after all DD has dyslexia.

(And so does the SpLD team and Dyslexia Action. But they will give you lots of advice about 'coping strategies')