Do schools profit from school dinners?

[polarfox]

Quite a few parents have some issues with the way the school dinners are run at the school, and we are thinking of complaining- but would be good to know in advance whether schools profit? do they care as such how many people are on them or not ? Is there any reason they would care if there was a massive exodus?

I know in our county that school meals are subsidised by the council. We pay £1.80 per school meal, and according to our HT they cost £2.30 each.

no schools don't profit from school dinners in fact school meals are heavily subsidised

No definitely not

depends...

Does the school run the service itself - i.e. employ its own staff and buy its own food or is it with a private contractor? Is this an LEA school or private?

I procure school meals contracts amongst others and in the current economic climate and with the rigorous nutritional standards in place no school I know makes a profit - all of them in fact have to pay a fee for the service - and our LEA subsidises the meals to keep them affordable for parents. I work with many other south east authorities and this is the case for all of them.

Schools often support a hot meals service as they feel it is beneficial for pupils' health and concentration and is sometimes easier to manage than lots of packed lunches. If push came to shove though most schools wouldn't sacrifice too much of their budget for the meals service as it would take 2nd place to educational issues and costs.

What are the problems with the meals service? How are parents raising their concerns and with who?

The catering at schools is either done 'in house' or by a private contractor, such as Scolarest. If the former the profit will not be particularly large, if a private contractor, well, that's the reason they're in business, isn't it? Profit.

I would think that both would be concerned at a mass exodus, but only if it were sustained. A few days until mums get sick of making packed lunches wouldn't impress.

I'm a bit suspicious of 'issues with how school dinners are run'. Complaints about food quality, fine. Not so sure about complaints about how they are 'run'...

Hmm. I have to say I do know of a school which makes a small profit from in-
house catering...

Nor, as a fairly long term Governor, am I aware of any subsidy on school meals.

Thanks guys!!

The issues we are having are that they seem to run out of food and by the time the last 2 years come in they have run out of the hot foods and only the sandwiches remain, which are not as nice as home sandwiches in any case- so def a stock control issue; it has been mentioned but nothing changed. As a result some kids are hungry as not all like sandwiches.

Also for some reason it's the year 3 and 4 that go last and they are starving, with no choice left to boot.
As they are younger than years 5 and 6 should they not be going first? I do appreciate someone has to go last, but could they not alternate on term basis?

yes maizieD - not unusual for schools to profit from in-house provision and tend to be able to influence parents to use the service more easily than if contracted out. Am also a school governor. All schools in our LEA that are in the corporate contract benefit from an LEA subsidy - not the case in every County by any stretch.

Ref running out of food - much depends on how good the cook supervisor is at assessing demand and on what the system is for pupils ordering meals in the morning (if there is one). Most schools round here get the pupils to select their meal choice in the morning then the order goes to the kitchen so they know exactly how much to prepare of which option. Deffo best to rotate sittings if it is still a problem.

Sometimes kids aren't entirely truthful and may say that only sandwiches are left because they don't want to eat a hot meal - sandwiches are quicker and maybe less effort. Not suggesting this is the case at all in your school but good to get someone in to monitor the service if you can.

If your LA has awarded the tender for providing school meals to a single company (Taylor Shaw - formerly Scolarest formerly Chartwells seems to cover large areas of the country) they have very strict "rules" about what cooks can provide and insist that their menu is followed with a 33% split for each choice.
In my school infants go last with reception Y1 and Y2 taking turns who is last

My secondary school does its own catering and the quality of the food, which is mainly sourced locally is far superior to our previous supplier who has already received a couple of mentions.
It does mean that there is an extra management need on the existing staff both in the catering side and in the office management side plus we use an outside consultant to ensure we are meeting all hygiene / food regs.
Do we make a profit? No because any surplus we make is ploughed back into catering in terms of more equipment and facilities. Is it possible to make a loss - yes very easily if you do not keep a very tight control of the costs.
OP if it is the same years always being left with the problem of sandwiches then that is a simple problem for the school to resolve by rotating the dinner schedule. Plus somebody needs to tell the catering compnay to get their finger out and sort out the stock control. It actually does not matter whether it is in-house, an La or an outside contractor, you are always the customer and the customer is always right!

Thanks for the claryfication , and ordering in the morning sounds a great solution- didn't know that system existed!
We can suggest that now, and rotating the years that go last, Thanks for the brainstorming!!!

Our school had in house cook, but they have struggled on at a loss for almost 2 years and have just conceded defeat and gone to Hampshire County Council meals, which -suprisingly- appear to be better!

I fail to see how 100g of potato, 60g of carrot, and 60g or meat with 2 slices of bread, gravy, and some sort of stodge and custard can be costing £1.90 per portion to cook in bulk when I could turn it out for about 60p. They bloody ARE making a profit, someone must be.

yes - they do get extra money down here - infact they specifically ask packed lunch kids' parents if they would qualify for free-school meals regardless of take-up rates. The Head has told me that the higher the number who would qualify, the more money they get from the LA.

fig cake qualifying for free school meals is differnt to choosing to pay for a school meal. All schools want anyone who is eligible for free school meals to claim them the school will get extra money from the LEA for every child on FSM it's usually about £600 as Free School Meals are usually an indicator of deprivation. I don't know of any school that makes a profit from school dinners, but as suggested the answer is for the school to take account of what pupils want that day to eat.

each day the teachers in my school take a dinner register and confirm whether pupils want School meal, or are bringing a packed lunch or are going home for any reason. That information is collated via the computer system and exact numbers are given to the school cook to ensure that she is cooking the right amout. We never have children not fed and never have food over.

Some schools do profit from school meals!

I know of a (secondary) school that deliberately overcharges everyone on school meals, then they use the profit to take every pupil that has 100% attendance to Disneyland Paris for the weekend

They are quite upfront about the practice too!

Schoolsecretary do you mean at your school a child can have school dinner one day and a packed lunch the next?

In ours they have to be on one or the other, and they need to give a notice of two weeks in writing if they wish to change.
I would love a system like yours, because its flexible, and not so monotonous for the kids!!!

2 of my childrens schools have the system where you put in an order form and payment by tues for the following week. You don't have to have dinners everyday so there is flexibility.
The other 2 schools have a pre paid meal ticket or bring money system. They are middle and upper secondary.
We send a cheque in and order form to purchase either 10 or 20 meal tickets and then use them when we want. If you buy 20 meal tickets you get charged for 19 so get 1 free. My daughter gets 10 tickets and then uses 2 a week because of evening clubs but she can use them more often if she wants to.
The cheques for 2 of the schools are made out to the council while the other 2 are made out to a catering firm who operate in the kitchens of 1 of the schools and send the meals to the other.iyswim

Glad this has been brought up, was wondering same myself.

I'm with coldtits - £1.90 is steep for a hot dinner, even considering staffing costs. It's certainly steep if you have lots of children on hot dinners. Can feed 4 of us for same price.

We have tried school dinners on and off and found same problems, i.e little choice for 'second sitting', only squash (with aspartame,another issue but one which bothers me), no milk available. Pudding invariably ice-cream, not the home-cooked one on the menu. Have now resigned myself to doing packed lunches.

Would dearly love the system described above whereby you can 'dip' in by nominating perhaps 2 days a week for hot dinners - sadly, it's all or nothing at our school.

At our school the children bring home an envelope for the next week and choose what they want to have. They can also have a mix of packed lunch or school dinner. They don't need to have a full week of one or any longer.

eglu thats what I would, and other parents, love..
TBH didn't realise other schools were so much more flexible..