Reception year: authorised absence?

[kattyo]

Everyone has been so fantastic answering the questions that have been niggling me for months - so here's one more...

My children would have entered school in January 2012. But now the rules have changed they will enter in September 2011.

What are the rules on term-time absences prior to the children's fifth birthday?

I ask because I have a long standing arrangement (that is, pre-dating my knowledge of the new school starting dates) to go to a far off and expensive to get to country at the end of this year (my old home, and i want to take the chidren to see it). I'd like to go for around two or three weeks, and for various reasons it's far more convenient to go in term time (both logistics and cost).

Can I do this in term time? Can the school refuse permission?

Also what are the rules on absences after children turn five? We have a one year old commitment to attend a wedding in south east asia - the children will be in the service - just after they turn five (the date of the wedding has changed since we made this commitment: previously it would have been in the holidays). We would be away for a week. Can the school refuse to let us go? Should I turn down the invitation now (even though it is very important for me to go. And I think beneficial for the children).

Thanks

What I know is that my friend took his then 4 year old out of school for a week (the week before his fifth birthday) because the school couldn't give an answer on whether it was 'legal' or not. So I would take the view of: prove to me I can't do it, if I were you.

Not sure about the post-5 weeks, however.

Your child does not HAVE to be in full time education until they are 5. I have a friend whose child attended Reception only in the morning until his fifth birthday, then he went to a full school day.

School may not be happy about it as a 2-3 week absence will interrupt the children's education, meaning that they will have some catching up to do when they get back, but seeing as you don't legally have to send your child to school until they are 5, I don't think there's much they can do about it.

The school are able to authorise up to 10 days absence in any given school year. They don't have to authorise it though. I don't think there is a great deal of difference between 4 and 5 year-olds, although they don't have to start school until they turn 5 they will still be on the school roll. I think their attendance or absence will still count towards the school attendance rates.

Of course the school can't stop you from going on holiday- having some unauthorised absence isn't actually a big deal unless it is frequent. If you were going to be away for a long time and the school was oversubscribed there could be a chance you could lose the places, but I doubt this would be a problem with just 2/3 weeks.

In your place I would definitely go ahead with your plans but I would probably try and arrange the first trip to coincide with half term so that they wouldn't miss too much school.

Should add that once a child is 5 you are legally obliged to ensure that they attend school. They can be allowed time off school during term time at the Headteacher's discretion. If the Head refuses permission your children would be marked as absent in the register, and you may well find that the LEA follow it up with you.

I'd have a chat with the Head when you go to the school and explain that these are long-standing one-off arrangements and that holidays during term time will not be a regular occurance.

Don't worry too much - how far behind can they really get by having a few weeks off at age 5?

I'm not worried about them falling behind, and I think it unlikely that the school will be worried about that either (although they could worry about disruption to the class, projects etc).

I'm worried about them loosing their school places or really arsing off the headteacher (this is assuming we even get a school place. I've rather prematurely moved on to the next stage of worry now....).

My plan for the under five trip was to straddle the half term, as you suggested (thanks!). And for the post five year old ttrip, just tell school once (if...) we get a place, and then hope for the best...

I would hope that if you talk to the headteacher well in advance they'd be understanding, especially as the start date has changed. And IME children will only lose their place if they're away for a considerable period of time (say, over a month) or if they suddenly disappear on holiday without properly informing the school.

As others have already said here the school cannot stop you taking the children out but they can refuse to authorise the absence. It's all down to circumstances and the discretion of the head.

Would both these trips take place in the same school year ? If so you are unlikely to get both authorised.

The family wedding seems reasonable and at our local school family weddings / commitments that the children would be involved in tend to be authorised but a family holiday would not be.
Our head makes no distinction with regards to the age or year group of the children. The rules are the same for reception as for year 6.

My personal view is that the previous system, where holidays were usually authorised providing no more than 10 school days were taken was reasonable. Few families take more than one two week holiday in a year and as not everyone can afford to or is able to take family holidays out of term, all the new rules do is improve profit for holiday companies as parents don't want unauthorised absences on their child's record.

What is wrong with having an aunthorised absence on their child's record? In what way can that later count against them?

It would be worth flagging to your child's school as soon as you know what school they are going to.

Under 5, your child is not legally obliged to go to school, so even if the school does not like it, there is probably not a lot they can do about it!!

There is no overall school policy on authorising absence (e.g. the 10 days quoted above may not be policy at your school). This varies from school to school. And it is normally at the headteacher's discretion - which varies from school to school!!

In view of your first absence I think it is likely that your second absence request would be unauthorised. This could result in you being fined, but this depends on your LEA.

Any child under 5 is given authorised holiday in my school, you will need to speak to the head to explain all the situations. you may find that the second trip after they are 5 will not be authorised as their attendance will be quite low, we have a cut off of 95% if attendance below that not authorized and if you still go you will be fined by Education welfare.

They don't reach compulsory education age on their fifth birthday, but rather at the beginning of the term after their fifth birthday. Would that bring the wedding in before they reach compulsory education age?

It might be simpler if your children just start school later. Did you know that even though schools must now offer places to all children in the September after they turn five, you have the right to defer their start without losing the school place? To exercise this right, they must start school by the end of their Reception year and by the time they reach compulsory education age. See www.dcsf.gov.uk/sacode/

Once a child is registered at school, by law his name can only be deleted from the register in particular circumstances. One of those is when the child has been continuously absent for 20 days, and the school (or maybe it's the LA; can't remember) has made reasonable efforts to establish his whereabouts without success. So an absence of a few weeks, whether or not it's authorised, cannot get your children kicked out of that school. To be on the safe side it may be wise to inform the school in writing of your plans.

Saracen

Can I ask then? My child is 5 at the end of Nov 2011. Can I therefore accompany my dh on his 4 month sabatical in the states from Sept-Dec and still keep ds' school place at an oversubscribed school?

I would be surprised if this turned out to be a massive problem for you.
Our school is very strict about term time absence, if you want time off you have to have a meeting with the head teacher and she is not one to authorise a two week holiday to Spain in term time type thing however I know that the things that you have coming up she would see differently, it is a wonderful opportunity for your children to travel, to see there Mothers home country and culture and then to take part in a family wedding in an amazing part of the world. I know this September she authorised a three week holiday (they managed to get part of it to fall in the half term) in the autumn term for a boy who had just started reception and he was 5 at the time but it was a trip to go and his Mum's home country and see all the family there and the head teacher could see how beneficial and educational that was for the boy.
I really don't think there would be a risk of losing the school place, the worst that could happen is the school not authorising one or both of your trips and in that case it would go down as unauthorised, your children wouldn't win any attendance awards that year but it's not going to stop them getting into uni either! The very very worse that could happen is you being contacted education welfare and possibly being fined but IME that would be highly unlikely. The best thing you can do is communicate with the school, explain the situation and maybe come up with a project the children could do while away, for children that age I would go with a simple project about how they travelled, what type of different things they experienced, it's very easy in something like that to cover a little bit of writing, drawing, counting and science observations (just simple things for example, It is much hotter here then home and it rains less and then you could talk about why that might be).
If you need to know about the wedding before you will know about the school place you could call the school you hope to get and ask them hypothetically about it.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Saracen: surely there is no harm in asking for this. A january start in this case would be legal AND would enable your family to stay together AND give your child a brilliant adventure AND be fun. And be great for you. Surely family cohesion will be judged more important at this point, particularly as your child is a teeny weeny?
Why don't you wait to see what school you get and then immeadiately discuss?

See the advice I was given above... it suggests you have a legal right not to attend until after the child turns five and therefore if the school says no you could challenge them or the LEA?

StartingAfresh yes, you can do this. The latest your son can start school without risk of losing his place is the beginning of the January term. All parents in England and Wales have the right to defer.

If you are in England, see www.dcsf.gov.uk/sacode/

I'm not so familiar with the law in Wales. I think this is the relevant document: wales.gov.uk/docs/dcells/publications/090721SchoolAdmissionsCodeEN.pdf but better ask someone more knowledgeable just to be sure I'm pointing you to the right place!

Both of these documents are statutory (legally binding) guidance from the government to Local Authorities directing them that they must give parents this option. (LAs are also told that they must make it clear to parents that this option is available. IMO many LAs are not doing a very good job of that: a great many parents think their child must start in September to keep their place! Even some schools don't know a deferred start is allowed.)

Ask your LA what the procedure is. I think you wait to be offered a school place, then accept it and say you want a deferred start. They'll be able to tell you what you need to do.

Enjoy your travels!

There's a lot of rubbish on this thread!

Absence for children below statutory school age is coded differently from older children and so doesn't count 'against' teh school.

Which bits do you think are rubbish, katiestar?

Saracen:

do you know where the land lies with deferring till the compulsory age if your child has already started attending school?

My LEA knew very little about the whole subject and told me to ask the school governors as the decision to defer would be down to them .

As I understand it, it should be okay to withdraw my son until the first term after his fith birthday. The fact that he has already attended the school since September last year shouldn't make a difference? (The school has Trust status but I can't see that should make a difference either).

I can't get hold of the chair governor until the week after next.. not sure what to do now - can I be bold enough to write to the head/governors informing them of what I'm doing and just go ahead with it?

Thanks in advance

The best is to ask the headteacher to check what the school policy is.

Our son's school according to the OFSTED inspector used to authorise many term holidays abroad (lots of people are from India/Pakistan and go to visit their relatives, weddings etc.). Since they got a 4 (fail) regarding absences at the review now they don't authorise any absences during term unless it is for illness or something urgent.

If for any reason you don't send your child to school (why miss the oppurtunity anyway when they can start learning and get a head start?) according to their rules, they will send attendance officers working for the LEA. They will tell you that if you don't need the place there are other children in the waiting list willing to attend regularly.

Last year at my son's school nursery I heard a woman saying that some family took a month off and went to asia for holidays and their child got kicked out from the nursery saying "come on! It's only nursery!".

What I mean is even if the law is not against you, you might lose a school place which will not be easy to get again. I know of relatives' children who came back mid-term and had to wait until next year for school places. And they were 10 years old and over. At least in our side things are tough (good in my opinion).

"Saracen:

do you know where the land lies with deferring till the compulsory age if your child has already started attending school?"

No, I don't know the answer to that one but I suspect it is a different case.

There is also the problem that it's only from September 2011 that parents have the definite right to keep the school place while deferring. Before that, the School Admissions Code said parents had the right to ASK for a deferred start. To me this implies that it should be granted. (I mean, everyone in the world already has the right to ASK for whatever they want, don't they? Why include it in the SA Code if it doesn't mean the request must be granted?!) But it was arguable.

"My LEA knew very little about the whole subject and told me to ask the school governors as the decision to defer would be down to them"

It sounds like your LA is passing the buck when it shouldn't be doing so. It's the LA's responsibility to formulate a fair admissions policy and ensure it is followed. The school has to follow the guidelines laid down by the LA!

Is the Reception year in your son's school full, and is there a waiting list? If the Reception year isn't oversubscribed and you don't expect it to be, there's no problem about taking him out and later putting him back in. If the school has a vacancy when you want to return, they aren't allowed to turn you away.