SATs results - how important when deciding re primary schools?

[smother]

I'm about to submit my DD's application for primary school (state). We had decided on our 3 choices of schools based on visits, ofsted reports, talking to other parents etc.

I was feeling fairly happy with our choices but looking at the Sats results that came out today, our first choice school has done really badly compared to the other two - would that put you off? How much importance did you place on Sats results when choosing your DCs schools?

Also, Y2 results are a teacher assessment, made up of lots of sources of evidence, including the tests. If you mean were they boycotted last year, that was only the KS2 tests - most teachers don't have an issue with KS1 assessment as long as it is done properly (i.e. low key, many different judgements, no over reliance on tests, etc).

Feenie just reading this and seeing you are 'live' on the thread wanted to ask you a quick question. Apologies.

Feenie, how would you feel if a teacher made a mistake about a child's NC level? For example if they hadn't accurately recorded an increase/had inaccurate records so promoted a child to the next level, but that was the level they'd been at for months already? Sorry, a bit convoluted. Thinking of reading specifically here. Is this a normal, natural sort of oversight particularly in a large class?

From what I've read and experienced reading is an area where children's ability can be underestimated. Also taken heart from comments on here that this doesn't apparently matter.

You said in OP that it did badly compared to the other schools you chose. But does that mean it did badly? And is this typical of the results over the last few years - ie is this a blip year?

It's not likely if a teacher is using continuous teacher assessment, which is best practice. I think the danger comes if a teacher has an over-reliance on a reading scheme level to assess at NC level, which shows a lack of understanding of reading assessment. I wouldn't say it's a normal, natural oversight, no.

If the assessment is 'out' by a sublevel, it wouldn't matter too much in terms of work set in the classroom. And it's unlikely to be wrong by more than that.

Thanks so much, Feenie. I have a situation where I am practically certain my son's a couple of sub levels above his assessed level. Trying to decide whether this matters if I know what he's capable of?

He can read James and Giant Peach and understand it in some detail for example. Sometimes reading books coming home have 3 lines of text to a page.

I understand your concern regarding fluency, and it seems to be a common complaint on MN. Fluency is only one assessment focus, however - there are many others.

I wouldn't ignore SATs but IMO they're only part of picture.

A few years ago we were living in an area with a school rated 'outstanding'. However it was quite a strict school, with a very 'old fashioned' head, and our DS never settled there very well.

We moved to a different area for work reasons, and the school we transferred to had a more average rating. However the head is lovely and I 'clicked' with her straight away. DS loves the school, settled in quickly, and as a result, is getting better results (academically) than he ever did at the previous school.

Yes, I know, pretty convinced about these too now. Hopefully his ability with these extras will show at his next assessment. He is a boy of few words and won't always communicate what he knows & understands.

It's always worth looking into the cohort because it can make a big difference to SATs results. For example, our school has a 75% intake of children with EAL who start at a low point but the value added score from foundation to Yr2 is excellent, however as you can imagine the Y2 SATS results are only average and some below average. The school is excellent and has high expectations of the children, and most importantly sees itself as a caring community where children feel safe and happy. This to me is far, far more important than test results.

I relied on talking with friends to decide on both primary and secondary schools.

The grapevine is a very valuable source of information I've found.

Useful to look at OFSTED results I feel, and hopefully go for a school with a good or an outstanding.

Also possible that some of those friends had looked at the SAT's results !

I moved my children from a Primary with exceptionally high results to one that was still above average, but had lower results. It was the best decision I made. The place with high results was a truly miserable institution, had non-existent care for the children, the curriculum focused only (and I mean only) on getting the SATS results, with the result that my older son came home at the end of Yr 5 with a completely blank and unfilled 'Humanities' book (they hadn't done anything), they had little PE, no creative expression...you get the picture. To cap it off, the school was actually cheating big style in the SATS test, with the teachers walking the room, stopping by childrens' papers, and pointing with their finger to wrong answers so the children could do them again. There was no parental communication. parents were not allowed into the playground to collect children. never mind to set foot in the building. I moved them to a school where they were immediately enthused by learning, cared for and much, much happier. This school may not be as high up in the league tables, but childhood is short and you only get one chance at it. I would strongly encourage you to go by your gut instinct not a table. You could also have a look at the % SEN children in the cohort that got 'lower' results. If there were a number of SEN children in that year, the teaching may have been excellent but these children may not have got the level 4s needed. Also, results from small schools can very a lot as one child makes such a difference, but for a school with 90 children in a year, the results will appear to be more stable

To me, the local school, whatever the results would be the one I wanted my child to go to. As a teacher myself, I feel very strongly that there is much more to school life and a child's wellbeing than the data that a school presents. A child needs to feel part of a community, be nurtured by that community, have friends who live 3 doors away to play and grow with and be able to walk to school where possible. And the earlier post about going with your gut is right imo.Just the very fact that you care enough to post on here says volumes about the fortunate position your child is in, compared to some of those that I teach.

oh no the school I picked for my ds has excellent SATS results. I didn't know this when I picked it, I thought out of all the schools it looked the most caring and lovely and I just thought it would suit him really well. It actually seemed less academic than the other two I looked at, not pushing homework etc. It wasn't until after I had put it down as my first choice that I saw when the results were published that it had 100% across the board! Don't know what to think now, I thought that was good oh well deadline today so got to go with it

I would also visit the school with dd. observe how children seem, general feel of the environment, pastoral care. Try not base you choice and final decision only on SAT results, the can often be very misleading, some schools can be very academically driven, but lack in other areas just as important for the well being and happiness of children. good luck.

I agree with babybessa to the extent that it's important it feels like a community you will all be able to join.

The school we chose, though not our nearest, is about a mile away, and in an "almost village" on the outskirts of the city. It has a good community feel, as you can tell by going to the school fete etc. or asking around.

Good luck all !

SAT's are not my primary concern.

My method of choosing a nursery/school for my DC's is to take them there and see how they react and behave whilst there and how other children behave towards them.

Admittedly, I am down to a short list of schools by then but the short list is gotten to by consideration of playgrounds (I have a bee in my bonnet about children having grass to play on and not just tarmac), what other parents say and proximity to our home.

That said I live in an area where all our neighbouring schools are good. I think I'd feel differently if this were not the case, though I honestly couldn't say how that might affect my methods of selection.

I would ignore them.It is laughable really, a school has an exceptional year and comes top of the league table and everyone is flocking to it and yet the staff know perfectly well that the next year's cohort is nothing like. If you are going to look into it you need to take at least the last 3 years you also have to look at how many SENs they have.

Oh Marnie, sorry to tell you, the children won't be allowed out on the grass in inclement weather or if the fields are still muddy since the last rain, the grassy fields might as well not exist most the time!

ljkk :) I think the kids are allowed on the field for the last couple of weeks before the summer holidays.....

In our area a lot of the schools have nothing but tarmac so even for those precious few weeks the children don't have the option of playing on grass.

imo a muddy child is a child who's learnt something.

DD's school has consistently high SATS results - 100% level 4s and over 50% level 5s in 2010, consistently high added value and consistently outstanding ofsted results. I am extremely happy with the school because it doesn't hothouse children. They offer a very wide curriculum and loads of after school activities. Less able children get extra one to one help in subjects they struggle with. The teachers are happy and dedicated and are very approachable.

It is a small village school with mixed year groups and is in the top 100 primary schools in the UK. It is also very friendly and I will be sad when DD leaves in July to go to high school.

The reason for the good results? No children with English as a second language (our part of South Yorkshire has a very low ethnic minority), children with good social backgrounds, excellent teaching, good leadership and parents who support the school and the teachers.

There is no way I would be wary about sending a child to a school like this.

I agree that SATS results on their own don't paint a complete picture, as has already been pointed out, but I wouldn't dismiss a school because the SATS results are consisrtently good, although I might think twice about schools with consistently low results - I would want to know why.

Interesting comments Bunbaker, for all the reasons why you suggest your school has reasons for good results is why I would never send my child to a school like that. I welcome a very mixed cohort, both ethnicity and social. Having different languages spoken in our school has given my child a wealth of knowledge of the world that perhaps he may not have learnt. Mixing with children who are perhaps from a different type of background, yes they may live in a council flat BUT STILL HAVE GOOD SOCIAL BACKGROUNDS. He can speak with confidence and has the ability to direct himself to a wide range of situations, a contribution from his school life. I love that he recognises difference but treats people the same. I can go to school with green hair and it would not matter. I love that nobody would judge me because I am not an image of that awful woman on location location. Oh yes we have excellent teachers, great leadership team, parents who support the school , oh yes and a high percentage of children on free school meals.

I'm a teacher. I don't care about SATs results in the school I've put my son's name down for. I know I can get 100% Sats results in Y6 if I cut out the rest of the curriculum!!!! But would you want that? I want a well rounded child who has done loads of things. Is there a SATs test for having grown a vegetable and eaten it, made a mosaic, splashed in a puddle, made life long friends. SATs are on their way out- don't get in a sweat about it.

When was the last time you were asked about your school results in the big wide world?

I am a parent governor at my dc's school and we were recently discussing an unusual drop in asessment figues from the YR and Y1 classes. This was due not to any 'social' or SEN needs, rather it was because of an usuaslly high number of childrn in that year with August birthdays!!! Obviously you would hope that by SAT time this would have levelled off but just goes to show you don't always get the real picture of a class!

Apologies for multiple typo's - bloody keyboard!