Cant see any way forward

[Woodhen]

This will be long so I can only apologise!
I am completely at the end of my tether and dont know what to do. We have had probs with DS at school since he started last september and it doesnt seem to be improving at all, the school have told us that he is disruptive, violent, unable to socialise and various other things.

DS has been at nursery since he was young and this is out of character - dont get me wrong he can be difficult and hyper so I am not defending him blindly. However there was never anything that we or his nursery couldnt deal with or that we thought might be a serious problem.

We have tried everything (reward charts, talking about his behaviour and how it affects his classmates etc) and cannot understand why he is fine at home and with his out of school friends.
We have been told on numerous occasions by the school that other parents are complaining about him, he is not invited on playdates and at the last party he was invited too other mums movd their children so they were not sat near him and he ended up sitting apart from the rest - only two children responded to his party invites, one in particular told him they were not coming as their mum had said he is naughty.
We have asked the doctor to refer him to the Educational Psychologist but this is taking a while and the school seem adament that something is wrong with him and therefore they will not do anything until diagnosed and special help arrives.
Is it possible to see someone privately? I genuinely dont know where to go next.

Has your child been with the same teacher or children in class?

The reason I ask is that we had a situation with my DD. She respected her teacher did everything asked of her. Then she moved into another class and it went down hill from there. I actually heard from other parents that the teacher was "getting at" my daughter. The other children saw this as a green light to have a go to so she was getting it from all angles. She's now in a different school due to us moving with new friends and she is so much happier and back to the DD we knew in her first year of school.

Luckily it only took a couple of out of character things to happen after me warning the school that something was about to happen before we took action. (It escalated over 6 months) I might add that everyone was quick to blame our DD and luckily my husband was brilliant at handling the situation / meetings with the school which helped to see it from another direction.

I'm not saying this is the same in your case but I am convinced that this could have led to a very slippery slope of bad behaviour from a kid that is normally very good.

Good luck with things.

Poppet

Things to try at home from one who's trodden a similar path before you.....

1. Early nights, including the weekends.

2. Severley restrict ALL screen time including TV, DVD's, Computers, DS Lites etc

3. Monitor what he's watching on TV - you would not believe some of the terrible stuff they pick up and copy - Disney is the bloody worst for it!

4. A good breakfast - no skipping it and definitely don't rush it.

5. Cut out all fizzy drinks and limit sugar from all sources. Also, check everything for aspatame - it's the devil's very own urine.

6. Bath every night for a few weeks, in plenty of time before bed so he doesn't have to rush it and he's soothed before he goes to sleep.

7. Lots of reading time with you and your partner - if something is on his mind, he'll probably open up with you after his bath and when he's calm and in bed.

Hope this helps.

Thankyou everyone - he has quite a few good friends out of school so Im not too worried about that, he just needs friends in school now.

Ds has two part-time teachers which im not sure helps the situation tbh, they also have a kind of split class where he is in with some year one children again not sure that really helps either.

We are very strict with diet and bed as he can become hyper, he goes to bed at 6-6.30 every night, only drinks milk and water and we have had to ban certain programmes as they make him go a bit loopy (Ben 10 being the main culprit of this!!) Computer time is used as rewards. He also loves his books and reads with us everyday.

They have put him as "cause for concern" and we were promised a catch up meeting after half term, despite reminders we are having this meeting next week.

Many teacher friends have asked about the IEP which has not been mentioned so that is on the list of things to ask - they did come up with some ideas but they seem to be very inconsistent - one week he will have a load of sticker rewards and then none for weeks.

If the school are having such problems with him he should be on the SEN register, and they should be working out ways to support him - not complaining to you.

The SEN register is for anyone who needs extra support at school, not just for kids with SN.

School should refer him to the Ed Psych. And in the mean time they should do everything they can to help him.

You can go privately, but it's a bit of a minefield. It's not clear whether he would be best seen by an Ed Psych, Clinical Psych or Pediatrician. Private referrals tend to go better if you pretty much know what the child has got (ASD, or ADHD for example) and you just want to speed up the diagnosis....

To make it even more confusing in different counties different people make these diagnosis. So where I am a paed would be your best bet, but in other counties CAMS (clinical Psych) are the right people to see...

I think don't rush in to doing anything privately. Although the wheels of the NHS work slow, there really is no rush. You are in here for the marathon not the sprint.

It is totally possible for a child to have something like ASD and for their behaviour to be much worse at school than at home. So I think first of all you need to research all his symptoms and decide what (if any) you think the problem is. THEN you can work out where he needs to be referred to....

Or, just get your GP to refer you straight to the paed....

You get an IEP if you are on the SEN register, and you implied school was refusing to put him on the SEN register without a diagnosis. (Which is wrong BTW. You absolutely don't need a diagnosis of anything to be on the SEN register)

I'm experiencing some similar problems with my ds, also in reception. Although my ds doesn't seem to have quite so many issues at school as yours does- he saves lots of his bad behaviour for us at home and he also had issues when he was at nursery [embarassed]
If you haven't noticed there seem to be quite a lot of us posting about disruptive 4 yo boys- I posted mine in behaviour 'cos he is just as problematic at home as he is at school. So you are def not alone!
Me and dh have been reading 'the explosive child'. We have tried so many time outs and reward charts with NO success at all. Explosive child seems to offer an alternative. It's only been a week since we started implementing the plan but it seems to be having a good effect already.

However, if your ds is doing fine when he is with you and with his out of school friends then it points to there being an issue at school. Do you have a home/school diary where you and staff can write comments about how he has got on over the course of each day? Why don't you ask school to do this between now and your meeting next week- it might show some patterns of particular scenarios that cause problems.
From what you say it's got to be a home/school partnership for you to sort this out Do the staff suggest anything like adhd, or other behavioural/developmental problems as a cause? What have they said so far?
Maybe the fact that the GP referral is not as speedy as you might like is that it's not been going on long enough and it's not at home and at school. For a disagnosis of adhd, for example, symptoms must be present in at least 2 places, such as school or home and for at least six months (I've looked into this for my ds).

Its def nice to know your not alone!
We tried the diary after I asked that they stop talking to me at the gates - this was happening everyday, ds was kept to one side of the fence whilst everyone else left and then I was spoken to about his awful behaviour in that day, I felt this wasnt helping so we started the diary - the senco scrapped this as it became a very negative book about his day. Now they basically dont tell me anything except that there is no real improvement.
Tbh im finding the whole thing very confusing and Im starting to become a little angry at the handling of the situation - I have since been talking to some teacher friends who are quite shocked at some of the things that havent been done and some methods that the school have been using.

For example at the start of term he was struggling at lunch times with the noise and size of the hall so I offered to pick him up each day for lunch for a few weeks whilst he settled in and slowly start bringing him back - he was still coming home three days a week at the end of term at the schools request as they (teacher and class) "needed a break from him" during the day. I was gobsmacked!

Woodhen.

I am totally with you on how this was being handled. My DD wasn't actually behaving that badly, albeit the straw that broke the camels back. Once the teacher started updating me every day on how she was doing (negatively and no worse than some of the other kids) I drew a line because it was not only awful for DD it was horrible for me to turn up and listen to each day. DD just got worse and worse. I knew DD was carrying a hell of a lot of anger but didn't know how to deal with it but then she was 5 / 6 and I knew there was more to it than met the eye. Also the behaviour was escalating with all the attention being drawn to how DD was behaving.

I seriously thought about changing schools. I felt that once DD was being viewed in a certain light we were b*ggered. (Excuse me). I only held off moving her because we were moving. Looking back both hubby and I said we should have moved her much sooner.

A fresh start and she's doing ok. I'd be a bit concerned that if they already have all these views that it's broken down and wonder what is going to change in his environment to make it work.

I know this might fly in the face of some advice.

Poppet

Some classroom enviroments are just too stimulating for some children and they cant cope. Be it the noise, the colours, the buzz of the other children whatever. It might be worth looking at other schools but also sensory integration issues. Worth getting a referal from your GP to the commmunity paed as well.

OP did the nursery ever say that he was unabe to socialise? is there a mother you could speak with whom would let your son have her child for playdates/ so you have somewhere to start with trying to allow him to make friends..

I would ask to speak to the Senco there has to be somethings your son does well and possitive reinforcement has often far better results than exclusion etc.

Are there other schools in the area that would be willing to let him start with a clean slate? sometimes that can help but only do this if the new school is willing to have a action plan from word go etc I feel very sorry for your little one if he is fine at home I struggle with seeing how he can be bad at school ALL the time. that sounds like he is being made the bad one at times.

Yes you can see someone privatly but it will cost.

What has the school tried to do to get your son involved with the class?

I second changing schools. This one sound absolutely dreadful.

However I think you should also research ASD very carefully. Most ASD kids have sensory issues like you describe.

My DS has ASD and he only got diagnosed at 9 because he was fine at home and I didn't understand why he was being naughty at school.

I'm not saying your DS has ASD - but I really think you should research it enough to be able to say for definate you don't think he has it. It's a very weird beast and not at all what I thought it was...

Poppet
Thats what worries me and is a continuing argument with DP - I dont see how it can get better, I have applied to change schools more as a back up final resort but was refused as the other local schools do not hae room, the one that does has lots of room and there is a reason for that!!! Also DP doesnt want him to move and wants to ride it out as this is a good school that just cant seem to handle a child that doesnt fit in "The Box".

One mum whos son replied to the birthday invite has asked him round and I suspect she has asked one of her friends to also invite him around which is very kind and will hopefully help - this has also given me back some faith in adults after some have been quite mean when you consider this is a four year old child.

Lonnie
I spoke to his old nursery teacher for advice and she was quite shocked and said he was always a sociable boy - if a little lively!!!!
Im going to pin the school down to specifics on what they are doing in the meeting and suggest some things my teacher friends have offered.

I am open to there being a problem and will def look into ASD - in fact it would almost be easier if there was a problem or label for it IYSWIM - I wouldnt wish it on him but I hope you know where im coming from there.

I just wanted to send lots of positive thoughts and good wishes your way. I think it is awful that you have it seems been dumped with all this upsetting information and then seemingly left to flounder and sort your own way out of it. It is the worst thing when you receive feedback like this and left desperate to find answers and a plan to implement for your dear little ds who is still so young.
I had a similar experience with my 3.5 ds but the health visitor was the person who diagnosed him as a 'problem child' I was terrified, multiple referrals to many health professionals worried about what the future held well... I bit the bullet although she said it was not his nursery setting, I moved him to a new setting calmer, firmer boundaries (no bombing around and not so much free play) and smaller class size therefore closer supervision and he has come on so well, he is super busy, can be rough with other children but has made friends in his new nursery unlike previously where he was socially isolated. Very best wishes

Cat64 - I think you are absolutly right as now I am wondering if maybe a not so good school results wise but more able to cope with different children would have been better - my good friend works in a very deprived school and I have to say she has come up with some wonderful ideas - she is very experienced and some of her reception kids would have DS's teachers crying under the desks!!

That said I did visit the local school with spaces just to see if it was an unfair reputation and my fears were not helped at all.

Thankyou Aliway.

I would also suggest you talk to your local parent partnership (find them via google) as they can give a lot of help. They might also encourage the school to bring in LEA advisors, who can be very very good, but schools can be reluctant to use as they cost money.

Also do try the SEN boards here to get more advice.

I would agree that the school has some bloody issues! Can you consider a change? He is so young yet...to be marked in this way.

I had similar issues with one of mine, ended up changing school, loved the original school but they just couldn't handle dc's that were different. Had the teacher update at end of day to, and obviously other parents heard/saw, and invitations to play stopped, noone wants to encourage friendships with the naughty one.As someone said earlier, reaction from dc was expressed as anger (well when you're 5 and feel rejected it's hardly surprising). Teachers even told me that ds was being wrongly accused of stuff they knew he didn't do, cause they saw the culprit - ds even started admiting to anthing that happened in the class in the belief they would blame him anyway so it just speeded things up .
There is lots of sound advise on here, and would definately watch school closely, and change if you need to, I left it too long and regret it.