Does it matter if children are not particularly challenged in yr1?

[Runoutofideas]

My 5 yr old dd has gone back to school today. This morning we were having a conversation about whether she was looking forward to going back. It went something lke this:

Me "Are you looking forward to going back to school today?"
DD "It is boring"
Me "It'll be fun to see your friends though"
DD "Yes - but I'll just have to do loads more colouring in and dot to dots"
Me " I thought you liked doing those - your bag is always full of them"
DD "That's because they tell me to do them when I've finished my work and the work is easy and doesn't take long"

Bearing in mind her bag was literally bursting with colouring in and dot to dots at the end of last term, should I be concerned about this? I help out in the class regularly and through this I know that she is doing fine, but is it worth having a chat to the teacher, or just ignore it...?

If she is finding stuff easy and finishing early on a regular basis then I would speak to the teacher. If she is doing well then a good teacher should surely provide some kind of extension work to do? Is she in top sets? I ask because if she is working at a high level then clearly she needs stretching.

I'd be concerned as she said she's bored - to me that is enough reason to speak to the teacher.

No. If she' s in a state school she may well not be stretched until year 7,ime.

It is a state school. The teacher seems lovely, but is nearing retirement, so I suspect may not be as enthusiastic now as she once was. DD is in the highest ability group and she, along with another boy, seem to be more able than most. Should I just leave it as she's clearly not struggling, or am I risking her getting turned off the whole thing, which would be terrible, as she's always been so keen?

Acanthus - that might be your experience but surely it shouldn't be the way it is, shouldn't be a reason to accept things the way they are?

Runout - similar thing going on here. Ds says he finds the maths too easy (and I can see why as he is doing mostly year 3 stuff at home) and he is quite an easy-going kid so wouldn't normally complain.
I am trying to gather up the courage to go and discuss it with the teacher about this and other similar issues...

Of course you should discuss it with the teacher - (a) if you don;t tell the teacher, don't assume they'll know there is a problem - they won't automatically know your dc is bored, and may fondly imagine (?) that she enjoys colouring in endlessly. (b) your daughter should be given work appropriate for her level, not just fobbed up with time-filling activities because the teacher can't be bothered to come up with differentiated learning.

In the greater scheme of things, no it's only year 1, and isn't so important. My DD had an appalling teacher in yr 1 and did fine - partly thanks to great teacher in year 2. But in retrospect, I wished I'd pushed more for a better learning experience for my DD (though in my case, I don't actually think the teacher was capable of providing it, so not sure how fruitful complaining would have been - I just tried to provide lots of fun out-of-school activities instead).

No decent teacher will mind you discussing this - make sure you explain that your daughter wants to do harder stuff - rather than phrasing it as a complaint eg why are you such a shit teacher, which will not go down well!

eenymenyminymo, similar thing going on with my bright but easy-going-don't-want-to-upset-the-apple-cart DD. Her "problem" for want of a better word is that she finds school and learning fun, enjoys EASILY being able to do what is expected of her but is shy enough not to speak up, for example they were doing multiplication before christmas and had to draw groups of something to help them to work out the total; DD knew the answers without needing to draw sets but drew away with the others, not saying anything to the teacher and only mentioning it in conversation over christmas. Do I step in? There is something to be said certainly for feeling confident with something, but if left repeatedly would apathy set in?

Y1 is very much the start of formal learning and it is still quite early on. The teacher is possibly concentrating on the pupils who are having difficulty adjusting to formal learning but there should be more challenging work for more able children and assessment of their abilities.
Does your child have a learning target for reading, writing and maths as this should start in Y1. At my dds school they did start "setting" for children in Maths from Y2.
Perhaps your dd could read a book sometimes instead of just doing colouring.

Thanks everyone. I would guess she probably does read a book sometimes as well - at home she takes herself off to read all the time.

I'm not sure whether they have targets as such. She brings home purple or turquoise books which she can read fluently with expression etc, rarely getting stuck on a word. They said at parents' evening that her target for writing was to use full stops and capital letters correctly, which she does anyway. Not sure at all about maths targets. They mumbled something about nymber bonds to 10, which she has been comfortable with for ages.

Maybe that's how the conversation with the teacher should go..... something along the lines of "what targets is she working towards and how can I help her at home", or does this seem overly pushy? Really I'm not, I just don't like to think of her being bored.

Just so you can compare, my son goes to a very ordinary inner city primary and yr1 certainly wasn't colouring in or dot to dot. In fact I can't remember him every coming home with any. Each term we had a leaflet detailing what they'd be doing. It was topic based and creative but very clearly structured around maths, reading, writing development. We also had a parents' evening each term where we were told / shown what progress DC were making in English, maths, etc. tbh I was a bit miffed that they were pushing the academic side too hard, but it sounds like your school might be going too far the other way.

Lovecheese - she sounds v v similar.

At the moment the tasks they do are fun and practical so even if they don't teach him anything new they aren't too boring mostly.

I think they do some ability grouping now but he (sorry if this sounds boastful - not meant this way) appears to be considerably ahead of the top group in reading and probably in maths but I'm less sure about that.

Dreading having to go to talk to the teacher but I feel ds shouldn't just be left to fit in with the others' level. Of course they can't tailor everything to where he's at as there are 30 in the class but I think they could do something more.

i would take what she says with a pinch of salt!!

You can talk to the school all you like, I did. But nothing really changed. DC now at selective independent and all is well. He never misbehaved, mind, despite not being challenged.

My son is Yr1. He was given his Maths targets for the year. These varied between children but his are appropriate to him. He has reading books every day which he fires through. He has a very good teacher and we are pleased with his progress and she recognises him as an individual. He wants and likes learning. That is our priority. I would recommend that you do talk to the teacher. It is important that the work is particular to your child regardless of whether they are able or struggling. I get annoyed that parents of bright and more ale children are laelled pushy when asking for more appropriate learning material for their children and completely understand your reticence going into the teacher. But you must, for the sake of your child. If she thinks your pushy for asking about appropriate targets for your child then so be it. I doubt very much that she is aware of the potential issue as she has a full class to think about. I would also say that towards the end of last term, my DS also did a lot of colouring and dot to dot, even some telly which was fine with me as they had been working hard all term and hed plays and trips - the kids were knackered.
I hope you gather the courage to talk to her and get the resolution you need.

OP, your child sounds exactly like mine! She too is in the top group, very able academically and is often used to help other children when she's finished her work.

I'm not sure what to do, tbh. The parent/teacher evening we had confirmed she's a bright girl and is being given extension work - but she still says she's bored, the work is 'easy' and she gets it all right (!!). I will bring it up at some point with her teacher, and soon, because I was similar as a child and did get VERY bored at school and lost my thirst for learning because of it. However I am reluctant to appear a pushy mum (because I'm really not) who thinks her child is a genius!

I had to ask my sons teacher to provide extra work for when he is finished. Its also important to get creative some times but dot to dots just sound rather time filling rather than creative.

Please don't feel nervous about chatting to your DD's teacher about an aspect of school that is worrying her - unfortunately, very few teachers are able to read minds (in spite of the impression we may give to the children we teach!) and, a teacher won't know that a child dislikes dot-to-dot unless someone says something!

Personally I don't feel the conversation is anything to worry about...

Runoutofideas: Could I talk to you for a moment about a couple of things DD has mentioned... she's claiming she's bored at school and I've said I'd talk to you as she's worried.
Teacher: Thanks for mentioning it... could we meet at the end of today and we can chat properly? I'll keep an eye out for her today and try to keep her busy.

Teacher: DD seems to have had a good day today; lots of X, Y and Z blah blah
Runoutofideas: That sounds good! I'm not sure how to go about this without sounding like I'm interfering.... Anyway, over the holidays she said she wasn't looking forward to coming back to school because whenever she finishes her work she has to do dot-to-dot/colouring and that they are boring activities. I've asked her about her work etc. and she says she always completes everything first, gets it right etc. but as I'm not in class with her I don't know how accurate this is!
Teacher: Hmm... I don't want DD to feel bored at school either! In terms of being first to complete her work, yes, she is. However, I believe she is capable of producing work of a higher quality as she races through everything in an 'eager to please' way which, although lovely, means she's not performing to the best of her ability. Given her age I'm reluctant to ask her to re-do her work as school is about so much more than producing written work. She is capable of using capital letters and full-stops now so perhaps she would feel happier if I ask her to do X e.g. write 10 lines (instead of the expected 5)/use question marks and exclamation marks/begin to include adjectives.... etc. etc. I'll also try to reassure her that I am keen to see her best ideas, rather than the quickest ones... do you think that might help?
Runoutofideas:

Ideally, a teacher won't need to produce 'extra' work for children who finish early - if the work is differentiated properly then a range of tasks/levels of work will be completed within the same time frame. In my Y4 class I have a tray of 'extra work' which consists of various word puzzles, logic problems, science questions etc. Although the children in my class range from those who are operating at the expected level of a 5-year-old to those operating at a Y4/5 level, no-one has needed to use the 'extra work' tray because they don't finish the work I set with time to spare. The expectations for different children differ.

My own Y1 DD is performing at a level, in Literacy in particular, that is well above the rest of her class. Her teacher targets her with different types of questioning, has made it very clear that she expects a different level of writing and yet still gives her lots of opportunities for play - this is in an inner-London state primary so it's definitely possible.

I would just take the 'bored'comments with a pinch of salt, shes probably saying it because it gets a reaction from you. I tell mine only boring people get bored ! Maybe shes rushing through her work rather than doing her best too ? I wouldnt worry about it.

SE13 what a fab post. You have given me confidence to not worry too much about speaking to the teacher as long as I am polite to her.

I get the impression it's easier to differentiate writing than reading and numeracy (well other than just handing them a harder worksheet). As a teacher what do you think?

I don't know that it's necessarily easier to differentiate writing per se, more that it can require less direction to differentiate writing.

In my class I have a child who is incredibly good at maths (Y6/7 level) and so I've produced a completely different scheme of work for her to follow. It's broadly linked to what the rest of the class are doing e.g. column addition but will be at a much higher level, perhaps with decimals, negative numbers etc. I also give her more word problems and open-ended/investigative tasks to challenge her mathematical thinking. If her maths was amazing but she couldn't read then it would be harder as she wouldn't be able to access the written instructions/prompts!

'Handing them a harder worksheet' won't necessarily stretch a child, it would be better for them to be given something at a higher level to begin with. One of the challenges with maths teaching is that it's very easy for children and parents to equate pages of calculations as being 'good at maths' (I'm not saying that this is a mistake you're making) but in school we're often trying to encourage good mathematical thinking e.g. strategies so that it becomes more about 'what if...?' and less about churning out automated answers (although there is a place for that too).

Differentiating reading - that's down to choice of text and good questioning. It doesn't matter if the book is of the 'cat sat on the mat' variety, what matters is how a reader responds; does a phrase conjure up a particular image? Why might a cat sit on a mat? Why didn't the author write; the cat sat on the carpet?

Some of my class have suggested that they've chosen a book that is, "too easy".... as I've explained to them (and on MN before), no book is 'too easy'. Adults don't put down a newspaper because they could read all the words! I don't take books back to the library and say, "Hello Librarian, this book is far too easy for me. I am such a good reader that I know all the words and can understand everything. Pah!"

I'm not sure I've really answered your question though.

You have SE and it's very useful.
Wow at what you do for the maths girl. Ds is doing y3 maths at home from what I can tell (his choice) and the top group wouldn't go that far. I'm trying to work out what the teacher could reasonably do to challenge him rather than very little which appears to be the case at the moment (although I might be wrong).

From what I can tell, there is a top group which is differentiated for for reading and maths but if you're beyond that (and ds is at least a year ahead of the rest of the group from what I can tell) then there's nothing extra done - he's just one kid so maybe I shouldn't expect special stuff for him.

Sorry for the thread hijack OP!

I wou;d second speaking to the teacher

DS is in yr1 (Aug born) but found his reading books to easy and was flying through them and tbh once he had read them once he refused to do them again as it was too easy.

I had a chat with his teacher (which I was a bit nervous about ) and showed him some of the books DS can read at home and he has agreed to put him onto harder books which he has done and now DS is fine about reading and doing well iyswim

I'd speak to the teacher too - obviously different schools operate differently and some are complacent, but my DDs (who are in ordinary state primary/middle schools) have always been given extension/more interesting work. My younger DD (yr3) is in a mixed Yr 3/4 group which is doing Yr 5 math work - this is brought in through partnership with the local middle school. My older Dd (Yr 5) is in the top set of her maths group and is doing Yr 7/8 work. I may be very lucky in how the state schools in our area, but it isn't necessarily the case that you need a selective independent to stretch the very able.

I do think larger (state) schools cope better with this if they set across the two or three classes though. They can have more granularity in the ability groups.

What I mean is actually larger schools full stop - not a state vs private thing in case I gave the impression that's what I was saying