7+ exam with little preparation - V bad idea?!

[7pluspanic]

Despite the two of us being privately educated, having a surprise which pushed us beyond 2 children put paid to our plans of educating ours privately.

We are lucky to have good state schools where we are, but my eldest is very bright, top of the top sets for everything and is on the G&T register - but is often saying he finds it boring. We have spoken to the school and they say they are doing what they can.

So, fast forward and I saw an advert for the local private school's 7+ scholarship exams and they say they would like to give state school children a good shout at them. I think that DS would probably be able to do well, but we've done absolutely NO preparation. Realistically, is it fair to put him into this sort of exam environment after only 5 or 6 weeks of practice?! It is a very academic school and I think that the standard of competition is likely to be very high - but I feel that if we don't give him a shot at it, we may regret not giving him the chance to fulfil his academic potential.

Any sage advice please? I have tried to speak to the school today but obviously they are not back until next week I think.

Go ahead, if your ds is very bright and you would like him to have a chance of going to the school (provided you've actually looked around it and have assessed whether you think it would actually be the right school for your ds, rather than just assuming it would be a good school for him). I don't see how it could scar him for life, if he isn't given the expectation he will definitely get a scholarship or that the school in question is in every way better than the one he is already at. How else could State school children whose parents genuinely have no money to help them prepare, get in? Five or six weeks should be enough, if the school means what it says and your ds is keen to have a go.

ps not being academically challenged at primary school does not, in my experience, automatically result in a very bright and motivated person failing to reach their academic potential. I appreciated the freedom of my primary school years - freedom to develop my own interests without the strait jacket of a school that piled on work that it viewed to be appropriate and relevant. I did not find it difficult to catch up academically later on, because I was "very bright." My dh, on the other hand, did take advantage of scholarships to go to very good private/public schools and also, largely, enjoyed his education, probably, given the way he was as a little boy, more than he would have enjoyed a state education.

I think if your ds is that bright and you just focus on 'exam technique' and answering the specific type of questions he'll come across/ practicing story writing etc. he should be fine.

Definitely have a chat with the school and explain you haven't prepared him and ask what they think you should do.

Be careful not to over-pressure your ds though given there are only a few weeks. I would also avoid telling him too much about passing/ failing so he doesn't feel a failure if he doesn't get it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and I think you will regret not trying.

Thank you for those words of wisdom - I feel that if we don't at least try to give him a shot, then we'll regret it. Equally, eeneemeeneeminemo, you are right that I don't want to put undue pressure on him or give him any sense that he might 'fail' if he doesn't get it; I didn't get a scholarship (at my 11+) and forever felt I'd let my parents down by not saving them the money (even though, to be fair, they never blamed me!)

I will wait and see what the discussions with the school bring when she phones me back and we'll make a decision from there I think.

In that case I wouldn't even mention the word scholarship and then when he's older he won't need to know. He will be much less aware of what it means at his age at the moment though.

Have you seen past papers for the school?

No - haven't looked at papers, haven't even idly done any 7+ stuff 'for fun' because we had decided that once we'd had three and then four children, we just couldn't give our children the same education we had ( private all the way through) so had stopped even hankering after schools or thinking about it and concentrated on just getting them into the best state schools we could manage. I literally saw the advertisment at the weekend and because of the way he's performing (coasting?) where he is, I thought it may be worth a shot.

I have left a message with the Registrar to discuss the circumstances and will take advice after that conversation.

One of our children did and passed 7+ exams. What we did with her (as her private prep geared girls up for exams at 11+ not 7+) was ensure she knew her times tables and practised reading and some comprehensions. I think she had a little bit of tutoring but only to practise a few papers and not for long. My mother taught my brother for 7+ entry (which he passed a year young) at home.

Let him try. Look at a few papers. Don't pout on any pressure. Children only get in a state about these things if their parents do. Just be calm about it. It won't matter at the end of the day, I was lukcy (or wise!) enough to pick a career which meant I could pay 5 sets of school fees from age 3 - 18 and university costs but not all women make such wise career choices and presumably some whatever choiec they would have made would never have had what it takes to earn X.

Not sure it is either lucky or wise to go for the most high paying career possible - just a personal choice, which is great if that choice coincides with your personal ethics and interests. If all the brightest people took the attitude that personal income was the most important criterion for choosing a career, the world would be a pretty miserable, greedy place.

xenia - I guess that you got where you are today by arrogance?

OMG Xenia. Is that last bit meant to make the OP feel bad?? It comes across as rather rude.

I was slightly tongue in cheek but so many threads are about I wish I could afford a good school or I wish I weren't exhuased but I can't afford a cleaner or I wish I could afford to leave my awful husband and so often if the woman had picjed a different career or kept her career up she would not be in the plight she was in so I do think it is important our children make wise choices and of course that wisdom might be a life in an enclosed religious order or emptying the bins but they need to know the result - be X and you will never buy a house; be Y and you will not be able to afford school fees etc etc

Or maybe a woman who chose a high flying career might decide at the end of her life that this was the main reason she ended up divorced, exhausted, unhappy, but nevertheless wealthy. Choosing a career just for the money can also have negative consequences.

But you are right, all choices should be made with your eyes open, then you can better accept the negative consequences.

I can sort of see your point but perhaps it wasn't the time to make it.

I would stay really relaxed and just tell him to have a go, if he isn't prepared then there is no disgrace in failing and he won't feel that he is letting you down.

Xenia, I do love your posts - I think any newbie coming to MN would very quickly know that you have educated five children privately . (I name changesd for this post so am a 'regular' but not a well known one). I didn't take offence to his particular post - although something you said a long time ago reverberates around my brain once in a while ("Anyone who went to private school and can't educate their children privately has failed" was what you said).

I have no idea how old your children now are, but fees have risen 50% in the past five years around here so most of the children in these schools are offspring of City folk, Russian/Chinese/Indian oligarchs or private consultants etc. It is beyond the reach of most families, even on a household income into six figures if you have more than two children. FWIW, I did make a good career choice, but despite earning around three times the national average personally, a DH who until this week earned slightly less than me, having a large mortgage and a nanny means that four sets of fees, plus extras etc are still out of reach for us.

Thank you for your input though.

Thank you. I very much doubt I said someone had failed because success in life for me is first mental and physical health and also loving relationships with others and I have never felt I pay fees so my children can earn X. I pay fees because that gets them a nicer and better education and then they can choose to become surfing instructors or monks or whatever.

My youngest are 12. The fees pretty consistently at the day schools have been around £10k a year per child. (I am not a fan of boarding schools). 2 x school fees has since I staretd paying 23 years ago been about the cost of a nanny - thus if a husband and wife are paying half a nanny's cost each or lolsing one wage to child mind pre schoolers then they can presumably afford school fees and now university fees as they are all about the same. Although you are right that there are those bottlenecks when still need the nanny for the last child whilst the others are in school already.

I suppose I've always thought of extra ways of making money and find that quite fun and most people don't seem to be like that. it's generally easier to do some new idea to make money than save £10 spending 4 hours on line thinkking of how you can buy cheaper chickens or whatever.

I was 26 when we were paying for a nanny and nursery school fees. I don't think it was easy but I think it paid off.

Anyway good luck with the scholarship and think about some additional business ideas too. So the after tax sum needed is about £40k once they are all at school, ideally a school with after school care so no nanny is needed so that's about double what the nanny probably now costs so you n eed an extra £20k to educate them than you are spending now (once they are beyond the nanny stage). That's not a massive sum to find. Or get them good at music.. One of ours got a music scholarship as he had a grade 8 in one thing, 6 or 7 in another 2 instruments when he was 12. Just think laterally.

The prep school in question is just over 15k day fees (which is at the higher end of prep schools around here admittedly) - so that's 60k a year out of taxed income, before we've bought uniform, books etc. Secondary day fees are closer to 18k - and if they carry on going up at 10% per annum (before extras etc), then we are a long way off finding "an extra 20k" a year.

You may doubt that's what you said, but you did - because it stung a lot at the time. I thought about it and then looked around; most of our contemporaries from school who didn't go into the city/medicine/law are not educating privately, even with just two - it's just become too damned expensive, especially if you live in an area with outstanding state options - it's cheaper to take the hit on the mortgage.

10k a year sounds a lot cheaper than the private schools around here. I'm glad I didn't go to private school if the result is a feeling of failure if you are not able to do the same for your own children - it would stop you becoming the surfing instructor you really wanted to be, really, wouldn't it, unless done on the basis that you didn't irresponsibly have children at the same time. Becoming a monk might well be a good career option, though.

Maybe an important reason why privately educated people are over-represented in the law, medicine and investment banking is the desperate desire of some to ensure an income sufficient to enable the continuation of private education for their children, rather than as a result of genuine interest or exceptional talent. Does this mean a private education was a good thing for these people, or did it limit their horizons? Could they have been successful in a field more suited to their talents, if they hadn't been quite so scared about ensuring a large and regular income?

7Plus - if your eldest does get in, you still won't be able to afford to send your other 3 children there. Will you be comfortable with that?????

I was saying I had no requirements on them to perpetuate anything, though. I just want them to have a good education. There's no desperation inthat. I love what I do. Plenty of higher paid workers love their work. It tends to be those on the factory production lines and call centres who find their work a bit more boring.

Habs girls usually oneo f the top - or 20 schools Juniors under £10k a year
www.habsgirls.org.uk/general.php?area=admissions&page_id=2

North London Collegiate often number 1 in the whole country of every school for A levels and usually in the top 5 - juinors is £11 400 a year so yes slightly over £10k but not by much.

So once the nanny has gone 4 children at private school will just be about an exra £20k. Not that hard to earn that if people think laterally and well worth it. If you can get a few in on music or academic or choral scholarships so much the better/easier too.

Xenia, I'm glad you don't have any requirements on your children to perpetuate anything. Make sure you don't repeat your comments about your lucky or wise choices directly to them, though, or they will find it hard not to assume that you do.

I agree, a lot of higher paid people do love their work. My dh loves his work - his hobby is also his career. Plenty of higher paid workers chose their careers more on the basis of the high pay than any desire to be truly happy at work, though - I've met quite a few highly paid, stressed people who do what they do largely because they feel trapped, having developed lifestyles and started families dependent on their incomes. If it weren't for the considerably lower pay, they might have become teachers, academics, classical musicians, farmers, or surfing instructors. Obviously, they wouldn't have chosen to become call centre operators or factory-line workers, because even with a state education, you can avoid that if you are intelligent, motivated, get good qualifications and want to avoid it... It's a shame to avoid the myriad of other fantastic choices out there, though, merely because they won't pay the private school fees.

ps so you don't think I'm just intent on knocking you, Xenia, I do think your upbeat attitude to the opportunities and difficulties that have presented themselves to you in life is impressive.

I think by the time you reach my age and stage most people who are successful at work and who could probably just about live on what they have if they gave up work but continue continue because they love what they do. I have always said to the children pick work you adore.

I do though think it's important they know the consequences. Be an artist or actress adn that probably means waiter and barely able to afford your rent for most, ditto call centre operative etc. Clever children know this but it's best to ensure they are aware of things. I have heard even students saying (an adult my age too) that's a good job as you get a BMW as if that makes up for a £20k salary when you mith be on £100k to £500k in another job or that's a good job because you get free clothes (a magazine) and not understanding aht £13k a year and free clothes might not be a better deal than £100k and no free clothes.

Plenty of families down size and if you haev a two career couple then it gives one of you the chance not to feel trapped if my chance later one does feel trapped whatever their gender but we certainly need to work on those pathetic women who think it's fine for women to make and have choices but no way is teir husband going to give up all income to find himself if it means the family has to survive on the wife's £35k a year income. That's just unfair and sexist.

Indigobell - that's why we didn't consider private at all - what we do for one, we'd want to do for them all - but if he got a scholarship and it's the right school for him, then maybe we have to look again at it.

He said again on the way to school this morning that he doesn't really learn very much at school. Now, even allowing for 6 year old hyperbole, that's rather depressing.

Soo all you need to do is find a way to earn the extra £20k a year for 2 children over the cost of the nanny for once all 4 are at school and don't need a nanny and you are home and dry.