Can't do my 9 yr olds maths homework! Help!

[Solo2]

I got a 'C' at Maths O level, 32 yrs ago and haven't done any maths since - except the usual stuff you do as an adult - with a calculator!

My 9 yr old twins have lots of Maths homework to do these hols and because of being away and then currently all v sick, haven't had time to tackle it. We tried some this morning, before DT1 vomited yet again - having had 10 days of sickness now - but, I hasten to add, not brought on by the maths!

I think I'd nowadays be called dyscalculic but I also think the homework may be pretty hard anyway. So I need some help. Here are some examples:

"(xx) squared = 79xx What is x?"
"(aa)cubed = 10388 What is a?"
"yy multiplied by 5y = 3942 What is y"
"mmm multiplied by mm = 43956 What is m if it's the same digit throughout?

Can anyone first tell me the answers and secondly, help me to explain in a crystal clear, easy way to two 9 yr old boys - who are in Yr 5 middle set for Maths - HOW to start tackling these?

Apparently, they haven't done anything as hard as this at school so far. I vaguely remember there's a way to tackle these but believe I did this kind of sum at age 14 of so, not at age 9 - or am I just so crap at Maths?

it maybe just (at a pinch) be acceptable to use xx to be a 2 digit number - but not if the very next word is cubed - because then you are venturing into the realms of algebra and geometry where you have to be consistent in your notation and know that xx is x times x which is x squared.

yes, for much smaller children, and EVEN THEN only to indicate a number made of up two of the same digits

The way I think the first one is meant to be is that xx are unknown digits so xx squared = 79xx most people would understand it if it were phrased x squared = 79 multiplied by x (answer 79) #This is much more likely to be a year 5 homework as is it is supposed to be showing the concept of squares and cubes etc.

VERY badly written homework = F-!!!

no integer solution

oh no iswym, no solution

I am a primary school teacher and have taught gifted and talented year 5/6 and I cannot make much sense out of it! If you like I will have a go and a think about it, and see if I can think of a way to explain it! Feel free to message me or something if this lets you!

I think it's probably about getting them to think about HOW to tackle it by trial and improvement rather than about getting the right answer.

I've got a yr 6, 11 yr old who is G&T at maths..
he's working years ahead and just got full marks on the 11+
this didn't make any sense to him at all and he says its rubbish made up questions, because if a letter is used twice it means the same number or number squared.
Having also got a yr 5, 9 yr old dyscalculic, who is still learning to bridge 100 reliably, I can confidently say this is ridiculous for a yr 5 child, aside from the fact this is a 2 week Xmas break and they shouldn't have aany homework!
HTH's

OP - if I were you, I would put this 16 page homework away, and write a note to the maths teacher stating that your children have been ill all Christmas and therefore have not done the work, and that if this creates any problems, she or he is to speak to you.

I would also ask to speak to the teacher in person, on the basis of wanting to understand what they had been set - and take it from there. You could spend hours on this only to find it's full of typos or it's just nonsense.

Thanks everyone. I emailed another parent from my DCs school about the Maths and she said she had to look up the answers on the internet herself.

Given all the feedback, I think that it's pointless to get my sons to try any more of the homework. Firstly, it's not actually strengthening skills they already have - it's just beyond them (and me!). Secondly, what't the point in finding the answers if they can't understand HOW we got there? Thirdly, they're still sick and so am I and it's too much to expect the last 3 days of the hols to be spent on this. Fourthly, all the feedback here is that even for a G & t at maths child, the sums are pretty stupid.

I will contact the teacher on the first day of term and explain both that we've all been v sick and also that as the maths was way beyond my DCs and also me - there was no merit in trying to pursue it further. They did do bits of some of the sheets and I think that's enough now.

But how on earth will I be able to continue to help them with maths as this Yr 5 goes on and then in future yrs?!

Don't say you didn't understand the questions - explain that you thought the terminology used was confusing.
Please let us know how it goes!

oh do mention that some of your "friends" have made comments about the confusing wording but DON'T mention Mumsnet

Here's an update on my original post: I've just been to see the maths teacher this morning and explained that DCs couldn't do all of the homework as we were all ill and also because they couldn't even begin to understand how to do the algebra bits.

He looked surprised and said that in this middle Maths group, there were 3 levels and he'd given my sons the easiest level homework! They'd already done lots of sums like this last term and shouldn't have had any problems!

I then confessed that even I couldn't figure it out, as it's 32 yrs and more since I did this kind of thing and I added that I wasn't doing this level of Maths at age 9 anyway.

He said that this was the standard level for Yr 5 in this school and reiterated that my DCs had been given the lowest level of this!

I felt so embarassed! He said he'd chat with them about the difficulties they'd had and give them some even easier examples of these sums to take home - ie the year below them - but wouldn't tell them it was Yr 4 stuff. I asked him if he could give me a sheet telling me exactly how to approach these algebraic sums so that I could then support my sons and felt I had to apologise again for not being able to do them.

He was very nice about it but clearly surprised they'd had any difficulty at all. He said that what they're trying to get the children to do is think around maths and reflect on how to approach problems, as well as getting the answers right, of course and that it was pointless just to give them a standard set of sums that anyone could do easily. He said that they needed to fail and accept they'd failed and then re-apply themselves and 'think outside the box' because in real life and at higher mtahs levels, you have to do this - not just stick to a standard formula.

I told him point blank that it was unlikely I'd be able to help my sons in maths as clearly the level for a standard 9 yr old - in this type of school - is beyond my 47 yr old skills! All this was in a friendly and jokey manner.

However, I'm left reeling. Given the feedback here and also the two other RL friends I approached with children in the same Maths group - the consensus of opinion was that these were rather weird and tricky sums and most probably beyond a 9 yr old' s ability.

But the teacher was v matter of fact about it and clearly DCs will need to get to this level quickly and beyond, as they have exams coming up in February. At that stage, they may at the v least be put down into the bottom group - which although not necessarily a bad thing, will crash their confidence levels. Their maths group has 26 in the class and one teacher. The bottom group has 20 in the class and f/t TA for the group.

It's also the stage at which the school decides whether or not to support your children's entry into the seniors for Yr 7 (they recently did away with the actual entrance exam for those already at the prep.). If they don't support you, then you have to get your DCs to do the external exam and having not got the support of the prep. feeder for the application, it's highly unlikely a child will get in.

So I'm in a state of high anxiety now and wondering how on earth I'll get time to re-educate myself in maths and then teach DCs daily in those skills, whilst also running a f/t business single-handedly and a home....

Solo - thanks for coming back to update. Sounds like you had a good humoured if slightly embarrassing meeting. But I don't think you have anything to be embarrassed about - lots of people here are good at maths, or teach maths, and there was a consensus that these sums are odd, and possibly not even sums with answers. Though apparently there are answers... would love to see them when you have them!

Do you have your sons' workbooks for the last term, so you can check through and see examples of them having done this sort of work before? It would also be helpful if the teacher would go through one or two of them with you quickly, just to unlock them - clearly applying standard algebraic thinking, that we all did at school, is NOT the way to decipher them, so perhaps there is a method or a formula you need to know first?

I feel for you - Maths is great but if you don't like it or don't understand it, it can become a huge block. I was good at maths (only up to GCSE, nothing too advanced) and still remember the panic when I just "didn't get" a concept. And I also remember the satisfaction of doing maths when I did "get" it. I had lots of support from my Mum too, which was invaluable when the teacher's methods didn't make sense and she could explain it another way. It must be very frustrating for you to also not understand this homework!

Solo2 - this really doesn't sound like the right school for your dss (given all your posts over the last few months). Self esteem is more important than an ability to do umpteen pages of poorly worded maths homework over the school holidays, and your dss' school seems to have no interest in the self-esteem of children who do not respond in the manner expected to its military style of teaching. If your dss don't get into the senior school, it might, frankly, be a lucky escape, if the same approach is followed there. In other words, maybe there is a mismatch between what the school provides and what you really want for your children - academic achievement at your dss' school is clearly prized above ensuring high self esteem, whereas you wish for high self esteem and hope that this will coincide with academic achievement.

If, however, you still want to fight for your dss, then I think you are still being far too polite and skirting around the real issues (which include making children feel small in class by laughing at their mistakes; overloading them with homework that appears not to have been very well thought through or well worded - a sign of slackness on the teachers part, if you ask me; persisting with a technique of teaching that assumes that all children respond well to aggressive competition and sending clear signals to those who don't that they are in the wrong place...). If you laugh and make fun of your own abilities while questioning the teacher in a very general way about the homework, rather than pointing out specific inconsistencies, then you will be waved away like an irritating gnat, which is what happened. Clearly, you actually have a point, as other parents are also quietly concerned from what you say, but others are choosing to "put up and shut up". Quite amazing, really, that people pay for their children to put up with this, through fear that the alternatives must be worse... I'm beginning to wonder if they can be that much worse. You need to decide whether to be one of those parents who keeps quiet in the hope you will obtain the prize of getting your child into the senior school and all will be well (rather than more of the same), or to stand up properly for yourself and your children, because there doesn't actually appear to be a happy medium, here.

Can you not go back and research again the alternative options for your children's education? I don't think someone with low self-esteem is going to do very well when they leave school even if they do leave with a clutch of A-grade A-levels.

I've only skimmed this, marking place to read later (not easy to get my maths head on with kids awake!) - do you have the teacher's solutions yet?

Agreed,
I very much look forward to seeing the answers.

This smacks to me of questions copied out of a poorly proof read text book.
DS has had a few of those. I found the book on an open afternoon. There were threads about it on the TES forums.

I cannot see what the year 5's will gain from those questions.
Likewise the homework that DS had that in the end several of the parents - myself included - number crunched with spreadsheets.
I marked in his homework book how it had been done.
Teacher gave DS a housepoint

I fail to see why children at this level need to "think outside the box" with maths, when surely they should be learning the basic principles first?

Obviously I am extremely old-fashioned in my thinking but I rather believe that basic principles come first, then build upon that foundation. Mucking around with "thinking outside the box" muddies the waters of the basic principles and they may never "get" them properly.

I had a maths A level teacher like this - wouldn't teach the basic way to do anything because it was "the cow-like way" in his opinion, so told us various more complicated methods - leaving me, with my logical yet basic brain, floundering. All I needed was the basics first! My other maths teacher was far more sensible and I did far better in her classes, despite the subject matter being far more complex, because she taught it better.

maryz - I would agree with you but would like to add in a 3rd type (my pure maths teacher) - genius who is ALSO a good teacher. I was lucky enough to have two of these, both women - they were extremely good at maths but also very good teachers, although they did teach top set maths - I flourished under both of them.

And then I met the male type 2 as you described above, and as I mentioned in my post prior to yours - he was SHIT as a teacher - but had written text books on the stuff and taught at degree level at Oxbridge somewhere (I think we were basically below his level of comprehension and he couldn't "come down" to us)