Primary School Admission Sept 2011

[applecrumbleandcream]

Any help appreciated. I need to fill in my dd's on line application form for starting primary school in September but a bit unsure what to do.

We currently live well outside the catchment area for our v v popular first choice school but we bought a house in October which we are currently renovating whilst we live at our present address. If all goes to plan, we think we will probably have our new home ready in March/April 2011 to move into. The new house is 0.2 miles from the school so we are really hoping dd gets a place there. Sister lives a bit further away than that and her dc both got in, so fingers crossed.

My question is what should I put on the on line form as our address, do I put present address or the new address and put a brief explanation of when moving?

Also, what forms of identification will Education Dept need as not yet had utility bills for new place with our name/address showing or do they look at they look at address of main carer who receives CB?

TIA

Though i wouldn't normally advocate about lying about where you live, if you have already bought your new house, i would put that address

Having said that, the form does ask if you have plans to move so you could do it that way

If you have already bought the house, aren't renting it out and are paying council tax on it then I would put that down on the form without a doubt.

If you ask them they'll probably say put current address then notify them but if you're not in until after closing then it can get tricky. Normally, I'd say be careful in case house fall through etc but in your case I'd look it as the new house is already owned by you and being renovated to your spec. Whilst these renovations are taking place you are currently at another, temp address.

If they query, just show a council tax bill and say you'll be in permanently as soon as it's habitable.

I certainly don't think it's the wrong thing to do either legally or morally.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the advice already given. Councils are increasingly concerned about parents falsifying the address on application forms by giving the address of a relative or renting (or even, occasionally, buying) a property close to a popular school purely in order to get a place. If there are any concerns they may send someone round to visit this property. If they find no-one is living there they will not accept that as your address and will put you at the back of the queue.

The first thing to do is check what your council say about the address to give on the form. Most LAs say that the address must be where the child usually lives. Camden, for example, specify that you must give your child's permanent home address on the closing date of 15 January 2011. Your new house is not currently where your child usually lives nor, based on what you have said, will it be your child's permanent home address until some time after the closing date. The fact that it will be your child's permanent home address by the time your child starts school is, unfortunately, irrelevant.

The safest thing to do would be to move into your new home immediately instead of waiting until you've finished renovating it. You may be living in a building site but at least there won't be any problems with the address used on your application.

The alternative would be to talk to your council. However, they will probably tell you to apply using your current address which would mean you will almost certainly miss out on your preferred school. Even worse, when you move you could be treated as a late application which would put you at the back of the queue for all schools.

Regarding the evidence needed, if you take a look at the admissions booklet produced by your local council (you will find a copy on their website if you haven't got one) that will tell you what the council want to see to prove your address.

prh's advice sounds right to me. Last year I was in a similar position, only moving into my new house in March. The council would not accept my application until I had actually moved in - pleas, letters from solicitors etc all fell on deaf ears.

Is there any way you can move into your new house straight away?

I agree that the safest thing is to move in now.

However, if this is not possible, I would still put down the address of the new house on the application rather than risk losing out on what will certainly be your closest and preferred school.

It's not ideal but I would chance it and if there's a whiff of query, I'd up and move into the new home asap.

You could speak to them and slant it like new house is your main perm residence but you need to live elsewhere for a little while until building work is completed saying that new house is your home and you'll be back in asap.

I don't think it's the same situation as someone who says they are definitely moving into catchment and are in the process of buying. You will be using the address of a house you already own and would be living in now if it did not need major work.

Sorry Montsorry but what you are suggesting will simply not be acceptable to most Local Authorities and you will loose the place if you use an incorrect address. As PRH has said it is where you are living on the specified date in the LA admission booklet.

Some LAs give a bit of flexibility in being able to adjust the address you are living at within a short period after the cut off date and the OP needs to check very carefully what is possible and what is not possible. If necessary spak to the LA admission office and get confirmation in writing that you would be able to change the address.

Given the move in date of March / April you might just get away with this, if the LA give any flexibility on dates, but I would be very tempted to move in immediately prior to the cut off date so that there is not question of abode.

Different LAs have different means and methods of checking addresses and if they do check for instance CB and the address quoted is different then clearly that is going to cause a lot of problems for you. Again it comes down to dates and when you can move but the sooner the better.

Sorry also meant to say that all LAs have a cut off date after which if you alter the address you will be treated as a late applicant. That means you will in effect go to the bottom of the pile and only be considered after all entries that were on time. Please do not fall in to this trap as some LAs are less forthcoming about telling you than others. Hence the need to check very carefully the LA data and confirm in writing if you have are going to put current address and then change on moving to new address.

I would move into your new property, even if you only sort of end up living there half the time. Again I only say do this because it is your actualy home and you do intend to live there full time and are not going it to "cheat" the system.

If you can face it I would move in and perhaps just spend the odd couple of days in your current place as and when work necessitates.

Move all your paperwork and claims to your new permanent address now btw.

I'll confirm what phr47 and admission are saying. I have experience of being in rented, buying a house and being honest about not moving in until after applications closed. My friend advised the LA of exactly this situation and joined the waiting list as a result - it was very stressful.

Move into your new home and do not move out again even temporarily until after your child starts at the school.

I'm not saying it would be acceptable to the LEA. I'm suggesting doing it in this very unique situation. Perhaps, as cargirl says, get the new address changed to be your primary address for council tax purposes etc then there's nothing they can do legally.

We once moved out of our house for 12wks whilst we had major work done and took a short term rent. We still had bills etc sent to our usual house and collected them every few days. There is nothing to stop the OP from doing this. In fact, that is what I suggest she does.

This is not the same as people moving after the closing date. This is already the OP's house.

So Admission, if say there was a gas explosion in November and a family had to move into rented 3 miles away unil end of Jan when the house became habitable again, would the LEA only look at the temp residence out of catchment?

If the OP 'officially' moves in even if not physically then surely this becomes a similar situation ie she is temporarily unable to live in what is officially her primary residence.

Thanks everyone for all your excellent advice. I am still in a bit of a dilemma, it is such a difficult position to be in. I don't want to look like I'm deceiving anyone but tbh we did buy the new house knowing the school was so good and how well my sister's children have done academically and socially.

Although it would seem the most obvious step, there is no chance that we will be able to move into the new house in its current state, walls are being knocked through at the moment and there is no central heating installed yet. It will be like this even by the 15th January end date.

What I have decided to do is speak to the Admissions Dept on Tuesday and see what they advise.

prh - I take on board what you say that they will probably advise to state my current address but I would hate dd to not get in the school. If it came to it, I think I would put the new address. I don't think I am lying - it will be our home address in March/April. It was also my understanding that schools admissions are not now allowed to carry out home visits to addresses they think are fraudulent.

Arrrrrgggghhhh!!!!

I wouldn't ring them. I would just change all your formal address to the new address etc as it is actually your home/main residence.

Are you currently renting this property or do you own both?

Everything Cargirl just said.

We now own both. Once we have moved into the new home we have the dubious task of trying to sell our old home (or if the worst came to the worst renting it). We need the money to pay off the renovation fees.

Regarding changing address to the new home - do you need to change council tax address, CB address - anything else that may be checked?

I'd say both of those def. Not sure what else.

I would just change everything, you will need to do it in the future so you may as well move them all now - bank, CTC, register that as your home for voting etc etc etc

I would also look at signing up to an estate agents if you can.

If they query your address in the future you need to be able to prove that the renovated house was your main home and you were only temporarily living in this house due to the renovations etc

Driving licence, I mean everything. You want the onus to be on them to have to prove it wasn't your main home, I'd be going there everyday with the dc in tow. You don't want to end up in the situation where your dd is in a school miles away over this.

Thanks Cargirl & Monty, I will start changing addresses now with everyone. As you say, will need to do this in future and post will be picked up by myself or dh when we are at the new house anyway.

Definitely do not want situation of dd in a school miles away.

The council is not allowed to conduct covert surveillance to check whether the address on your application is correct, so they cannot follow you, watch the properties or use CCTV evidence. However, they are probably allowed to visit the properties and are almost certainly allowed to conduct enquiries in the area, asking the neighbours whether or not you live there.

The fact that you are paying Council Tax on two houses, one of which is near a popular school which you want your child to attend, will suggest to the council that yours may be a fraudulent application. They are then entitled to investigate. Every year parents change their primary property for Council Tax, change the electoral roll and so on believing there is nothing the council can then do legally. They are wrong.

The council do not have to accept that the property you have as your primary home for Council Tax and electoral roll purposes is in fact your home. If they conclude that you are not living at the address given on your application they can legally treat your application as fraudulent, putting you at the bottom of the pile. They can also legally withdraw an offer after it has been made. They can even take away the place after the child starts school, although that is unlikely in your case. If any of these things happen you can appeal. However, by law the question the appeal panel will have to consider is whether or not the council have acted unreasonably (which the courts say must be interpreted as "irrationally") in concluding that your application was fraudulent. If they have not acted irrationally it doesn't matter whether or not your application was actually fraudulent, you would lose the appeal.

I therefore stand by my advice that you need to move into your new home immediately.

By the way, if you plan to change your primary home for Council Tax purposes without actually moving you need to check the rules carefully as it may constitute tax fraud.

Agree with prh47bridge. Could you live in a caravan in the garden of the new house from the cut off date if the house is not habitable? Know it's not ideal but people would definitely know you are living there. You could then move you things into storage and place your old house on the market as unoccupied, telling the council of the changes (don't think you'll have to pay council tax on the old house either).

Change all your documentation and send by recorded / special delivery by the cut off date for application.

If the school is as popular as you say it is I would not phone them tomorrow, it will only draw attention to your application.

Take sleeping bags to the house. Knock on the neighbours doors to say hi! Tell them you have just moved in, maybe laughing about the fact that you're all in one room at the moment as that's all that's habitable. Nothing to stop you going back to other house for showers etc.

So my advice:

• Move over all documentation

-Move sleeping bags in -Meet neighbours -Sleep at least two night in property before closing day with camping stuff.

If they own both properties they will have to pay council tax on both!!! Only "unhabitable" houses are exempt from C Tax I believe!

I really do agree with moving in and camping there.

Can I just add this thread is in no way giving advice on how to cheat the system. The OP is talking about her house which she would be currently living in if it did not need the work done.