My kid wants to quit school- but I think he has a point- HELP!

[curlycousin]

First I must confess that we had a year out last year, travelling and tutoring as we went, eclectic mix of subjects and covering nat cur topics that he would have missed. Great experience, meant the world to all of the family and the idea was to step back into Mainstream school - but we have a big problem.....
Tonight I have been told this.... "i like school, it's a great place to play with friends, but honestly I am not learning anything. Every day it is as though my brain is a chocolate cookie and the teachers break a bit off and throw it away - mum they don't even take a look at it before it goes in the bin. They don't care about what I know or what I think, they just want me to sit still and do as they say. I am not learning anything at all, except swear words from the other kids. They are really nice but it is as though they have just given up their brains and have stopped thinking. I don't want to go to school, i don't want to think what they tell me to think."
I am asking you honestly please, can someone tell me what on earth I should do? Do I find another school or is he unschoolable. They are quite happy with him at school, although say he doesn't concentrate sometimes, but his work is good.

If there are other choices, try them. I was bored to death and eventually traumatised by school and it's possible if I'd got away sooner, it would have gone less badly for me.

I don't recall learning anything of value at school. It was a waste of time. My parents, who were both teachers and pro-state education, eventually agreed.

I'd continue Home Edding. It's obviuosly worked very well for you so far.

In my experience, private schools - particularly Preps - are a bit prone to group think. I would talk to him - making sure he's not saying what he thinks you want to hear, talk to his teacher and head teacher and have a look at other schools.

If he's happy to go to school then you don;t have to do anything quickly - you've got time to consider your options.

seeker it was my ds who said they all have to think the same .....I think this was bcos the time of year we visited was Xmas and a lot of display work was v similar and the telling of the nativity was very 'this is it' .....ds had earlier that week heard the same story off me and thought to himself how he could 'understand' this ....he then off his own steam researched how far from jerusalem to bethlehem,calculated average walking distance and worked out how long it might have taken.

I dont think the OPs son said they all have to think the same.

I do hope you explained to him that doing Christmas displays at Christmas is not an example of "everyone having to think the same" and that probably most if not all of the children in the class he was visiting could (and indeed may) hav researched the difference between Jerusalem and Bethlehem and worked out how long it would have taken to get there!

Home Ed is wonderful - but home edders do themselved no favours is in their promotion of their choice, they knock school education.

unless you are reluctant to keep HEing him, that is what I would do. Seems you did a fantastic job of it. Why not continue till secondary?

Or are you keen to be back at work?

Not sure how helpful this is, but imo there's lots to be said for seeing how others learn, realising you're not the centre of attention all the time (nor should be), and to make something where at first you think there's nowt.

Am not trying to knock your son, OP - he sounds fab btw - what he says may be accurate, but if so it's a terrible school. A lot of bright kids if asked will say they're bored. Mine says it quite often too, but the majority of the time I know he's learning lots, is happy and is definitely being stretched. If you doubt your son is, then you should move him, but I think what I'm rambling on about is don't dismiss all schools.

Hey Seeker dont get narky with me tis Christmas.

Well, honestly, JOnickschick - you know perfectly well that was naughty!

it's a hard one.

he's basically saying what i would have said at that age and felt about school very often. though luckily i had a primary school where at least a few of my teachers over the years recognised it and encouraged me to learn ahead and extended me. it was secondary school that was the real nightmare on that front.

the trouble is that how he is finding school is rather reflective of how society and the world of work often is found by some of us. so in a sense there's no getting around it and a good parent could help them come to terms with it and know how to get on in these situations and find more satisfaction in them and also to find additional outlets where they learn/experience/think in ways that please/stretch/use them.

i would be inclined for now to go down that route - help him deal with the school he's in, help him develop ways to communicate positively with the teacher and others and to create opportunities to extend his work without coming across as bored or surly or critical etc. i'd then think about the extra curricular opportunities, not just tutoring but maybe hobbies and activities that are fun but also draw upon lateral thinking and are challenging. it's so helpful in life to have 'extra activities' that you derive pleasure and challenge from when you are a person who needs that and not to see it as work has to provide everything.

apologies if i'm not making much sense. i'd try and see school as one place where he learns and does his 'out there' stuff and not the be all and end all and help him to pick some other places/activities to get things from too.

I think that you make perfect sense Santa, and if he is happy I would help him deal with the school he is in.
I don't think that teachers would want him to think in a certain way, because it would be deadly boring for them.
I would make sure that he knows his thoughts are his own and to always feel free to express them, and that teachers like variety and originality, as long as it is politely expressed.

if you have the money for private education think how far that money would go in providing extra curricular opportunities in specific interest areas? would possibly be better spent specifically and creatively imo than on school fees.

and thanks lamorna - i am a bit incoherent from flu at the minute

It's also important to remember that school is only a few hours in the day. Most children do loads of stuff outside school - reading, writing stories, organized activities, lying on their beds day dreaming, sport, talking, googling, looking things up in books, going to the library, playing, making, singing, hanging out wiht friends - loads of stuff. So it's not either/or.

If your child is happy at school he will be learning things there. And there's lots of time to do other things with him from 3.15 onwards.

You don't always appreciate what you are learning at the time and it is only when you look back that you get a different perspective.
Seeker is right,the school day is very short and he has far longer at home.

Two other things.

Always be very wary when a child says that he or she is "bored". It doesn't mean the same when a child says it as when an adult says it.

And we need INCREDIBLY careful to make sure we're not projecting our own experiences onto our children, even subliminally. Children want more than anything to please us, and will often say what they think we want them to say.

The OP's quote from her son sounds to me as if there is a bit of tha going on.

Talk to the school at length (and get DP to join in - you need two perspectives).

We can't possibly tell at this distance whether it's a crap school (or a single crap teacher, in which case all may be fine next year) or natural reaction to this huge readjustment. A big talk to the teacher and the head will help you decide which is correct.

I'd concentrate your energies on finding the right secondary school for DS and make that drive your plan for the next 2 years.

Since when is learning to get on with other children and teachers, learning acceptable behaviour in a mini-society and making friends not learning anything? Clearly, the problem is with the academic side of his learning (and probably more the way that is being taught than what is being taught) - he's learning plenty elsewhere, by his own admission. Even learning current swear words is useful .

My family's experience of private school was that it was more rigid than state school - you had to conform, or they didn't have to let you stay. Not, therefore, necessarily a good place for an independent thinker, although I am sure there are many good private schools out there that are less inclined to churn out lots of the same type (probably mainly those that don't do entrance exams and interviews to ensure they start out with lots of the same type in the first place). If your ds is in a poor state school that teaches to the test and does not inspire, then move him. If it isn't that bad, then I would, as others have suggested, focus more on what to do with his secondary education, now that he is getting close to that stage. If you have an idea of where you would like him to end up for secondary level education, it might help you decide what to do about the last year or two of primary school (eg if you want him to go into private education at secondary level and choose a private school that has an associated, equally good, prep school, then maybe it would make sense to move him there as he would then be mixing with children he is likely to go on with to secondary level education?...). Don't, whatever you do, though, assume that private education is always going to be better - it can fail abjectly, at a very high cost, even if, academically, it appears to be succeeding.

rabbitstew, it depends on the private school, which is why I suggested she ask for advice from other MN. I mean, a Steiner schol (not that that would suit this child, or any child of mine actually) is private. Summerhill is private. A school in Cambridge started by a home-ed mother and now one which does brilliantly academically but still focuses head-on on social skills and kindness to one another is private. They cover a wide base.

And a bad private school will be a lot worse than a bad state school in academic terms, IMO. Their teachers don't need to be qualified, for a start, and inspections are pretty cursory. The problems may be disguised because paying parents will often be putting in a lot of effort of their own.

Agree with Dilysprice that talking to the school should be a first step. They may not realise how bored he is - and they will have their own perspective on what the issue is, too, which may or may not be useful.

My DD1 had an amazing summer abroad, 7 weeks of lots of excitement and freedom in the sun. Then she went back to school and for the first few weeks she found it very hard indeed. She is only in Y1 but still she told me that she could not think straight for a few weeks. It all eventually settled down.

I think you should possibly give this a little longer to settle down, and as other said, take the time to think long term and choose a school with a view to the secondary options available.

I also found that lots of extras out of school do help a creative and bright mind.

Sorry, perfectstorm - didn't mean to imply all private schools are rigid, just that my family's experience of them was as such and that, therefore, in my view, this was something to watch out for when choosing a school for a child who likes to be free to question authority (ie the teacher)... ie it won't be a simple case of switching to a more academic private school and problem solved if curlycousin's ds doesn't like to feel he is being told what to think.

Your son has put it so neatly! Does he want you to home ed him again? It has obviously been working. Why did you stop home educating? Why not have another year out where you are living now?

If he has made some friends then he could carry on with them outside school hours and continue to develop his thinking and learning at home/out and about with you.

He has a lot of gear changes. From school to (autonomous ?) HE and then back to school again. That is quite a lot for a little boy to manage without any qualms about losing the more recently familiar.

If he isn't arriving home sad, knackered and flopping then there's nothing wrong with offering enrichment in the same style you used when HEing the previous year, maybe a combo will give him the best of both worlds ?

I'm wondering how much of what he is saying was gleaned from adults in pro HE conversations. Cos it sounds awfully familiar to somebody who spends more time that she ought to reading HE lists in the name of avoiding housework keeping up to date. I'm not suggesting he has been indoctrinated, but he might be mirroring back what he has heard you saying or agreeing with. Cos it may look like the fastest shortcut to losing all this "new stuff" and going back to the more familiar HE, rather than be an accurate representation of what he thinks or feels.

He doesn't sound unhappy or desperate, so I'd go for seeing how you can help feel better about the way things are right now, rather than looking to make even more changes, and then revisit later on down the line if it still looks like he isn't settling as well as he could.

If HEing is off the table cos you can't or don't want to, then I'd find a way to communicate that as great as it was, it is no longer an option for X, Y, Z reason. Sometimes knowing that one choice isn't on offer makes it easier to accept the choice that is and make the most of it rather than looking for faults with it. That alone might be the key to him having a more positive impression of what school has to offer him because he might dive into it rather than be looking to criticise it in the hope of going back to a year he obviously enjoyed very much.