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Primary education

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Original poster

Has anyone ever struggled to get their DC taken off an IEP?

36 replies

pinktortoise · 16/12/2010 16:47

Ok briefly...DS was put on IEP midway through Yr 2 as were concerns that he wasn't doing as well as he should. Was quite unconcerned about it as I thought extra help is good - but put most of it down to being youngest boy in year.
He came on leaps and bounds in Yr2 and continues to do so (which I believe is age related).
However was issued new IEP in Sept (start Yr3)- completely different set of targets to Yr 2. He achieved all these but I have now got a new one to run through to Spring 2011.
His reading , writing and maths is all where it should be or above.
The school is fairly small with very low incidence of SEN's yet have a FT dedicated SENCO. I just feel that they are leaving him on an IEP when he doesn't really need one and that a new target will always be given even when he achieves. (The targets incidentally could apply to anyone in the class eg: Check work after 4 sentences).
I know loads of you will disagree and say that teachers don't do these unless necessary but I don't believe this is necessary.
The teacher and SENCO can give me no idea of what they feel the problem is just that he sometimes needs to make sure he has understood a task before beginning...........
Sorry not that brief after all!

OP posts:
SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 16:57

We'd need to know his levels to know whether or not he should have an IEP. In my school we aim for children to achieve a 3C/3B and if they are two sub levels below this (at the end of the year) then we would be looking into why - not always SEN, but could be seen as an indicator.

By the way your child isn't 'on an IEP' he would be on the SEN register. You could ask that they take him off this but keep him as a 'cause for concern' for the future in case he slips again.

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 16/12/2010 17:04

I am extremely Envy at a school with low numbers of SEN children who can afford a FT SENCo Shock!

I would ask to have a meeting with CT and SENCo and explain that you don't think the IEP is necessary (if, as said above, he's working at the level he should be at). If you get no joy then speak to the Head. Does it worry you that he is on an IEP? They're making a lot of work for themselves but it's not really affecting him in the long term!

(I am a p/t non-teaching SENCo and have over 100 kids on my SEN register hence the Envy!)

Original poster
pinktortoise · 16/12/2010 17:20

Sorry haven't got his levels as they wouldn't say at parents eve. Wil ask again tomorrow.
Had a meeting in November with them saying that I didn't want him on SEN register or IEP as he is performing where he should be and that I wasn't signing the very general IEP that they put forward. They then redrafted and said it would be reviewed in Dec so I signed . Now been handed new one as he achieved last targets! Just seems the goalposts always moved.
It does worry me that he is being labelled unfairly . It also worries me that if he moves school he will be seen as SEN and I can't see that he has any!

OP posts:
SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 17:23

SEN isn't a label and neither is an IEP. Children are on the SEN register because they need help to achieve. The targets given should be S.M.A.R.T and he should achieve them. If he is consistently achieving them then that is a good thing. However, the IEP should be small steps with the goal posts constantly moving because if he achieves one lot, there should be the next thing in order to get him closer to the next level he needs to be at. One IEP wouldn't have done that.

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 16/12/2010 17:30

I wouldn't worry too much about the labelling thing as a lot of children go on to SEN registers in primary school and don't stay there. Also your new school would re-assess.

I can't understand why they're not sharing his levels with you and not taking on board your concerns that you don't feel he needs this help. As a SENCo I'd be more than happy if parents asked for me not to support their child - it's usually not the case!

I think you should ask again about his levels and make an appt with the head in the NY.

Original poster
pinktortoise · 16/12/2010 17:36

Thankyou for your replies - I know it is not a big deal really but find it annoying as he seems to me to do well. He gets all spellings right, is on top reading level and passes all mental maths and tables tests. He is not a genius by any means but am pretty sure is fine for his age.
SingleDadio I take it you meant 3c/b were for end of Year 3?

OP posts:
SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 17:52

Yes Pink, usually 2B at end of Year 2 and therefore 3c/3b end of Year 3.

mrz · 16/12/2010 18:33

What were his levels at the end of Y2?

I'm very surprised a school can afford a full time SENCO. I'm a Senco in a mid sized school and full time class teacher...

paranoid2 · 16/12/2010 18:45

My Dt2 has some learning difficulties and actually has a statement so I'm sure my Dt2 has far greater difficulties. Although on paper his results look ok , in that he is a great speller, has a reading age above his age , not bad at maths, got 2's in his sats in yr2 but he struggles a lot with following instructions and interpreting verbal requests. He is fine when things are requested in a certain way like times tables but struggles with understanding what hes meant to be doing at times. When he gets shown and has grasped concepts hes fine.Could it be that the teacher has to spend more time with your DS so that he can grasp instructions on how to do things and they have set some targets to assist him. Its just your comment about what the teacher said made me think this. Although i wouldnt worry about the IEP as all help is useful and I dont think labelling is an issue either as a lot of children have these at some stage I would be a bit concerned that the teacher cant give a better explanation of his difficulties or what level hes at

SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 18:54

We are 2 form entry and have a full time none class based senco but she's also a senior leader so does other roles 2.

SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 18:54

We are 2 form entry and have a full time none class based senco but she's also a senior leader so does other roles 2.

Original poster
pinktortoise · 16/12/2010 19:03

Levels at the end Yr 2 were 2B writing, 2C in maths and reading. I queried the reading one as felt he reading was stronger than writing but was told "You don't want him marked too high or else he won't get the help he needs" ??
TBH I thought the marking was conservative.

OP posts:
Original poster
pinktortoise · 16/12/2010 19:05

He wasn't 7 till end July.

OP posts:
SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 19:12

Wouldn't be considered sen in my school unless he has other needs.

mrz · 16/12/2010 19:27

pinktortoise his reading and maths are slightly behind and 2C and it would be totally appropriate to give extra support. We have a 2C policy where all children entering KS2 at 2C get support.

I'm also a member of the senior leadership team with 6 (or 7 )other roles and still teach full time SingleDadio

SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 19:33

Must be cash issue in your school msz then ours can afford it. Although she isn't called senco bug inclusion leader and does tonnes of initiatives and intervention stuff that she couldn't do if she was class based.

It does depend on the school and the cohort and as msz said support in place for 2C is good if that is the lowest end. However he wouldn't be on the sen register in mine as generally these are children at a level 1 at end of ks1, but he would be monitored as a cause for concern.

mrz · 16/12/2010 19:55

I'm called Inclusion coordinator too along with literacy coordinator and child protection ...and run a number of initiatives and interventions ... and it's not to do with cash more my desire to remain in the classroom not in an office.

SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 19:59

Oh right well the only reason I said cash was because earlier you said 'i'm surprised a school called afford a full time SENCO' which does make it sound like a cash issue. Our senco didn't have a choice about being class based. It works better with her out of class. She also doesn't have an office but an inclusion room.

mrz · 16/12/2010 20:19

I should have said I am surprised a school with low levels of SEN think it's a good use of funding (can afford) to employ a FT SENCO.

SingleDadio · 16/12/2010 20:40

I definitely agree with that Mrz. I'm surprised at that as well.

rabbitstew · 16/12/2010 21:26

Sounds to me as though the school thinks your ds should be achieving a lot more than he currently is, pinktortoise - or has some mild issues along the lines suggested by paranoid2. Is it enough for a child with a lot of potential to be achieving just below the average? Surely, if the school thinks he can do far better than average, you should be pleased to support the school in helping him achieve that? The school has a duty, after all, to help all its children reach their potential, not to ensure all its children reach the average, regardless of their ability. I wouldn't therefore be making a fuss about getting my child off his IEP, but would be asking for more clarity from the school on where they are heading with all this?

ps the transition from Year 2 to Year 3 can be a difficult one, as it is the transition from KS1 to KS2, and sometimes in some schools there is a bigger jump in expectations between what Year 2 teachers thought was acceptable and what Year 3 teachers think is OK than there should be (ie a child appears to be doing less well in the more formal atmosphere of Year 3 than he was doing in Year 2). If this is an issue, it is something the school should be working on, it isn't the child's problem, but it might make the continuation of an IEP for Year 3 a good idea...

madwomanintheattic · 16/12/2010 21:40

sometimes levels are not a good indicator of support needs. dd2 was statemented for her sn but is consistently working several year groups ahead of her peers. ieps are not always used solely to improve/ target academic performance. it does sound as though the school believe that your ds has problems with assimilating information and staying on task - what are his targets on this term's iep? have you checked them out against 'smart' criteria as mentioned earlier?

(note also that at 7yo the iep should be reviewed every 6 mos, (twice a year) with new targets as necessary)

as you do have access to a ft senco/ inco, i would be making the most of her, and arranging a meeting to discuss in more depth the targets on the iep, and what support you can be giving your ds at home to help meet the targets. (often it is a good idea to at least appear to pay attnetion to the 'professional' pov, and then query it at a later point once you know what it actually is - i don't think you have really understood the reason that the school believe your son needs support, so you need to get to the bottom of this.) no-one is saying your ds is not achieving academically, but they do have some concerns which you apparently do not. as a parent you need to focus on understanding what those concerns are, rather than a vague notion of getting him removed from the support. you can make a better judgement once you have understood the reason behind continued use of an iep in this case.

Original poster
pinktortoise · 16/12/2010 21:54

madwomanintheattic
As a parent I have constantly asked why the school feels he needs this support obviously I want to know why. The reason I cannot understand it is because they give me no good reason.
So far I have had nothing other than "He's abit different" , "He's a divergent thinker", "He is an original thinker" - you see why I am at a loss last time I met with them I deliberately asked so what is the problem? To be met again with a selection of the above.

OP posts:
cece · 16/12/2010 22:00

I'm not sure I understand why you do not want him to have an IEP or be on the SEN register?

Surely if he is meeting his targets and making 'good' progress then whatever the school is doing with him is working. Why would you want to stop that?

madwomanintheattic · 16/12/2010 22:10

so you need to ask them more - are they talking aspergers 'different'? adhd 'different'? sensory processing disorder 'different'? what makes him 'different' from his peer group in their eyes?

if he's divergent and original, he's obviously a bit quirky - is he extra-bright quirky? (so not meeting his potential because they aren't providing the necessary stimulation - would an ep assessment help to quantify whether he needs further extension work?) or is he having difficulties managing the social interaction aspects of the classroom, which is causing him not to reach his potential - would an iep with social targets be more beneficial rather than academic targets...?

i don't know your son from adam, so have no idea what support they are giving him/ targets they are setting. what are the targets they have currently set - are they solely academic, or more social/ process driven? does he have any issues with handwriting/ fine motor tasks which could be causing him to work slower? does he have aproblem following the rules of the classroom? does he interrupt the teacher to answer the questions when it isn't his turn? does he refuse to answer any questions at all even though the teacher knows he knows the answer? is he responsive? does he have friends and a similarly able peer group?

(i'm not pointing in any direction in particular btw, just throwing out q's in an attempt to work out why they believe he still needs to be on the radar)

fwiw one gp told me that ds made the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. i assume not in a good way, but he didn't really elaborate, so i do know professionals can be reticent to discuss or suggest specific diagnoses. and it took 2 years for the paed to admit that dd2 had cerebral palsy - very common to call everything 'developmental delay' for as long as possible...

do any nof those questions ring any bells? there are loads of other reasons they might wabt to keep him flagged.

as an aside, what are you worried about? what actually concerns you about him being given extra support via an iep? (nosy)

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