boy in ds's class using the f word at ds today (yr 5)

[Longstocking2]

apparently they were messing in line and this boy said he could 'f' my ds and my ds could 'f' his mother !
I mean we are in a city and very mixed community but I still think the boy in question is a little sh** bag (between you and me) and shouldn't get away with it.
But ds says if there's an inquest the boy will just deny it and then harrass my ds more.
It's so hard to know what to do.
dh says ds just has to twat him once really hard and he'll back off.
ds says he doesn't want to get uber time out with the Head.
i think the school is always really lame at addressing any of this.
Any advice of what to say to teacher or ds?
ds is really upset about him using that language about me.

I think that's a bit pompous Jinx. Lots of really bright children experiment with language and boundaries at this age.
I think you run the risk of teaching your child to be pretty smug and judgemental if you talk to them in the way you describe.

I don't think it's pompous joni..."really bright" doesn't mean "good citizen" does it?? The same kids will be pissing on cenotaphs in a few years because they get away with FAR TOO MUCH!

I think that a lot of adults vary their language depending on the audience. I agree that it is unfortunate that children experiment with bad language but maybe we know it's sad because we've been "there" and done "it" ?

What the boy said was unacceptable and nobody has condoned it.

I forgot to add to my original post that my year 5 son would not have known that "fuck my mum" was any different from "fuck you". If he was in your son's position he would have said something like "Don't tell me to fuck off" really loudly so the boy knows that he won't tolerate it and so an adult who heard his retort would punish the boy. (My son's behaviour at school is considered to be very good so no even if the other child denied it then teacher would believe him).

ShanahansRevenge.

I'm sorry, I do think it is very pompous indeed.
And as for "really bright doesn't mean good citizen" does it.' Well, er yes, it can do.

Joni....so can really thick...or really poor...but people who swear aggresively at fellow students aren't displaying good signs of becoming the kind of person we hope our children will become.

I honestly believe you are 'overthinking' this point ShanahansRevenge.

Nothing judgemental or pompous about my post whatsoever.

My children both have friends from very different backgrounds, upbringing, religions, walks of life etc.... Some of them use bad language and some do not. My children know very well not to copy either because they are children not sheep. I'm sure there are a lot of bright children out there who experiment with language in the same manner that some children/young people etc...may experiment with other things that perhaps they should not experiment with. Where do we draw the line. Children need boundaries and guidance as to what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.

mayz, I thought the same. And even then I wouldn't have been surprised!!!

Reception children swear (not tolerated, but as OP's have said they hear it everywhere )so there's NO point getting stressed about Y5's doing it, or hearing it. Imagine toddling off to secondary school and getting upset because someone said fuck to you!!! Lamb to the slaughter!

There is a difference though, between general use of swear words and telling someone they would fuck you and he could fuck his mother. I work in a school where swearing is the norm in many homes and we take account of that (e.g. an expletive when dropping something on their foot!) but that's different. What this boy said is verging on threatening.
In fact I would go as far as to say it's not the word itself there that's the problem.
Why does your son say he'll just deny it? Has this happened before?

Totally Panzee....what this boy said to the OPs son was bad....the same kid could be doing far worse in four years time i he is not decently reprmanded.

Do you honestly think he understands what 'fuck your mother' means?

It isn't at all pleasant and of course if I overheard him I would tell him it isn't acceptable.
But honestly people, kids swear. It doesn't necessarily mean they're thick or candidates for ASBOs.

I have never encouraged my ds to hit another child and I would never do so.

It is interesting though when ds was being bullied by two boys whose mothers are friends of mine, nothing any of us did made any difference until my ds punched the instigator.

Now dh says that's how boys sort stuff out in the end and that all this theorizing is for women and psychologists.

Given that so much effort was wasted in the past and just a physical tonk sorted it out I think it's worth discussing what really works as opposed to being pompous.

I do dislike this child but it's hard to like a child who picks on your child isn't it? or are some of you boundlessly loving and generous to kids who pick on your kids? I doubt it.

I'm going to have a discreet word with the teacher so she can keep an eye. ds has been quite sheltered and is fairly innocent despite the school being very much in the real world. He was really upset that this boy used this language about me and he does need to toughen up.

It is really useful to hear everyone else's opinion even if it's just to have a go at my post or me!

And I wish someone would honestly address how effectively boys seem to solve things with a tactical punch where bleeding heart writhing positive intervention etc etc can have no effect whatsoever.

"all this theorizing is for women and psychologists."

sorry I meant to say he said this in a jokey way to make me laugh and wind me up. But he does think that some boys will only respond to a physical refusal to accept their bullying.

joni, I didn't say he was thick or heading for an asbo.

I just think he's one of these kids who the school lets get away with stuff because the head is so passive and unassertive.

I think there should be a stronger lead on pupil behaviour from the top. Other schools do it. Our head is particularly lame in this area and I've served as a parent gov for many years and know what I'm talking about in the case of this school.

Longstocking - I think your question about how boys resolve disputes is a valid one. It probably is true that, particularly with young boys, argument, persuasion and talking it though don't on the whole have as much effect as they do with girls. But I still think that's the only way to go.

Don't you see the contradiction in saying that the school needs to take a strong lead on pupil behaviour and then (apparently) taking some pride that your son dealt with an incident by 'tonking' the other boy? What will you say to the school - or your son - when your son comes home bruised because another boy took exception to something he said or did and 'tonked' him?

If boys lack the verbal or social skills to deal with minor disputes then that seems to me an argument for better teaching of those skills, at home or at school. Otherwise, what happens 10 or 20 years down the line when the only way they know to deal with conflict with a friend, colleague or partner is to 'tonk' them?

I don't want my previous post to mislead people into thinking I live in a posh part of the sticks with little darlings at prep school.

Croydon state primary school, also 2 classes of 30 per year, and no I haven't heard a lot of this and I am at school a lot.

Longstocking. I didn't say you said the child was thick or heading for an asbo. I was referring to another posters comments.

Appreciate all this advice. I really didn't mean to sound 'proud' about the tonk, I was just exasperated with the two boys who were bullying my son, and the school had no useful strategy and the mothers didn't help at all and I knew them well.
I was amazed at how one punch stopped it completely. It wasn't my idea, I'd spent months saying not to do so. Eventually dh out of my hearing told ds to sort it out himself.
That time it worked and I agree it's hardly an ideal or foolproof policy.

I just find that the school is not strong enough on this. And I agree home life is a massive factor. And dh doesn't tonk people in his home life!
I'm now just advising ds to ignore this kind of language and any unpleasant behaviour if he can. I keep saying boys like that will stop if you really ignore them. If anything else physical happens I will go straight to the teacher and keep on going until it's sorted.
Thanks for the advice from everyone.
I think I just go slightly mad briefly when someone's nasty to my ds and then I calm down and see things differently a few days later.