school appeal help!!

[angryma]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum thingy so please be gentle.I lost my children's school appeal yesterday and am gutted. The panel consisted of three old women and one was actually answering for the lady from the LA. They disregarded the fact that my evidence was really strong and my son's disability which means he struggles walking even short distances.
Can someone please offer me any help??

If you think you should have won your appeal you can complain to the Local Government Ombudsman. They will review your case and can overturn the appeal panel decision if you should have won. This happened to us. We lost our appeal but the Local Government Ombudsman overturned that decision.

Find the information you need to make the complaint on the website here

DizzyMum - I have also successfully referred cases to the LGO. However, they do not act as a further appeal. They will only overturn the decision of a panel if there have been procedural irregularities or if the panel's decision is clearly contrary to the facts, e.g. they have applied ICS rules in a non-ICS case or have ignored clear evidence of the admission procedures being incorrect. Up to now we haven't had that in this case, but I think we now have something to work with.

AngryMa - Thanks for this information. Going through it a bit at a time...

You have confirmed the net capacity and the PAN. I am afraid the fact that classes fall short of 30 does not give them a reason to admit your children. What matters is that the school is up to PAN in the relevant years. Even if they taught them all in classes of 5 it still wouldn't make a place for your children.

It is not unusual for a school to exceed PAN in some years. This can happen due to successful appeals, children with statements of SEN or for a number of other reasons. Unfortunately it doesn't help you. Indeed, in this particular case it probably hinders you.

They seem to have sent out the information in good time so there is nothing to complain about there.

The two small classrooms are definitely crowded. The spreadsheet used to calculate net capacity suggests they can each accommodate 25 children. The 47m2 classroom can take 29 and the others can take 30. The Y3 and Y4 classes will be overcrowded on these figures - the classrooms are not big enough for 34 or 35 children.

The LA's case seems fairly standard to me but I keep coming back to the admission number. There is no way this school should have an admission number of 35. Is this a community school? If so, the admission number is determined by the LA, NOT the governors.

Looking at the decision letter, the one thing that jumps out at me is that there is no indication whatsoever that the panel has considered whether or not your children will be prejudiced by not being admitted to this school. It reads as if they have decided that admitting them to this school would cause prejudice to the school and have stopped at that point. That is the wrong process. They are required to consider the extent to which your children will be prejudiced by not being admitted to this school and then decide whether that outweighs the prejudice to the school. There is nothing in the decision letter to indicate they have done that. In my view that gives you a case to take to the LGO.

Having said that, even if the LGO finds in your favour the most you are likely to get is a further appeal. You don't have to present the same case at the new appeal so you would need to think about how to strengthen your case. The big problem is that admission number. I think we need to get to the bottom of that and find out why it is so high.

I can't thank you all enough for this information that you're giving me. The panel haven't written anything to consider the extent to which my children will be prejudiced by not being admitted to the school. The school is a voluntary controlled school.
The letter only gives a rundown of the reasons I gave at the appeal and nothing about how the school not admitting my chiidren will prejudice them.
The letter constantly states the prejudice towards the current pupils.

I forgot to mention, in the LA's case they are constantly talking about the hall and the library etc being crowded. But from what I understand the LA should only be talking about the rooms/areas where the actual teaching takes place and not areas that are used ocassionally. Am I right?

If the decision letter talks about your case that makes it less clear cut. I assumed what you put in your earlier post was everything they said. The letter should go on from the LA's case to consider your case and talk about the balance of prejudice or something similar. What does it actually say about your case? And does that come after the stuff you've already posted? As I've already said, they cannot simply decide that admitting your child will cause prejudice and leave it at that. If that is how the letter reads there is a potential case for the LGO.

Moving on to your latest post, they can talk about all parts of the school when referring to overcrowding. Many LA cases refer to overcrowding in the corridors and other common areas.

I agree with PRH.
The class sizes are small for the numbers and I would have been minded not to have admitted further pupils, especially to the year 4 class with 35, based on this info.
The school only has 7 classrooms and they have one good size classroom (the reception class) but the others are small.The net capacity of 204 sits well with the classroom sizes
The organisation of the school is set up to accomodate the high numbers in the infant end of the school and lower numbers in the junior end of the school and not break the Infant Class Size Regs. However if they continue to get 35 in year groups in a couple of years they are going to be in a position where all classes have 35 in them. They are going to break the ICS regs big time and will not be able to do anything about it because of the ludicrous PAN of 35. It should be 30.
I am not convinced from your posts that have a strong case to take to the LGO. The panel appears to have made reasonable decisions, though I suspect you could argue about your year2 child with SEN. I think you need to make the best of the situation and arrange with the LA as to which school can accomodate all your children.

Hi again,prh47bridge.
T he letter first talks about the LA case (the part I posted and then reads as follows:

T he panel engaged in a balancing exercise in that they considered the needs of your child and the interests of the school, one against the other.

In undertaking this exercise the panel had regards to the fact that the LA had applied certain criteria in allocation school places. The purpose of that criteria was accepted as being to ensure that where there were more applications to a particular schoolthan there were places available, the places were allocated in accordance with the published admissions policy of the authority and the individual arrangements agreed with the governing body and the head teacher of the school.

The panel then considered the reasons that you had put forward for wanting your three children to be educated at the school including.....(then it lists my reasons)

However, having considered all the factors very carefully for both parties the panel felt that to admit further children into the school would cause prejudice to the efficient provision of education or efficient use of resources and they did not feel your arguement outweighed the case from the school and the authority.

Can I ask what are the ics regulations?

angryma I think youa re looking at this the wrong way.

One child has ASD, is that the same one who ahs mobility issues? Are they being assessed for a statement or do they have one?

that would be your best route forwards I think in truth. And I would be looking on the SN boards for that info.

yes one of my child has mobility issues and is currently being assessed by a psychologist.I showed the panel all the relevant medical letters too.
I told the panel how one of my son (the one who is currently being assessed is very unpredictable outside. He doesn't understand
the concept of waiting for traffic etc. And the nearest one they have offered is where you can't move for traffic. It's horrendous.
Plus they presented that map where it shows the walking distances for the nearest other schools. It showed the distance as being 11 minutes walk but in reality walking at my sons pace it took us over 25 minutes.

That's the bit I was looking for. It basically means they haven't stopped after looking at the LA's case. They have weighed your case against the LA's and decided that the LA's case is stronger. Given the ridiculously high PAN I am not surprised. So I'm afraid I don't think there is anything there you can take to the LGO. It might be possible to argue that the panel has looked at your three children as a group instead of considering each appeal individually but there is no guarantee that would work. Even if the LGO did decide in your favour the best you could hope for is a further appeal and you would face the same problem of the ludicrous PAN. It looks to me like this school already has problems with overcrowding which are likely to get much worse over the next two years as the relatively small year groups (Y5 and Y6) move on and are replaced by new intakes. A different panel might admit your Y2 son but I would be very surprised if any panel admitted your other two children.

ICS regulations are Infant Class Size regulations. They say that classes in which most of the children are in Reception, Y1 and Y2 must have no more than 30 children with a single teacher.

If the result of his assessment is that your son gets a statement of SEN you will then be able to name the school you want him to attend. It is hard for the LA to refuse your choice (and you can appeal to SENDIST if they do). Once you have a statement of SEN naming a particular school they have to admit your son. They have no choice in the matter. However, that doesn't get your other two children in to this school. It might move them up the waiting list but that's as far as it goes.

Angryma if I an help with the ASD assessment bits let me know (I may already ahve sent you info- brain like a sieve). Doing MA in ASD and have lots of stuff.

parents can apply for a statement, and its usually fastest route. have a look at IPSEA and SOS!SEN for information.

'However, that doesn't get your other two children in to this school. It might move them up the waiting list but that's as far as it goes' true, although sibling prisority could be the ley to nabbing any future place. Esp. if LEA think that by dropping teh child with SEN there yourself and not having to drive elsewhere, they can save on LEA transport costs.......

BTW a diagnosis is NOT needed for a statement; ds3 had his years before.

Hi again, I can't believe what has just happened.... I phoned the school up this morning as I just realised that I havent even asked the other schools if they have places or not (stupid of me to think that the LA would actually be telling the truth, turns out 2 of the 3 don't and the 3rd option is over 30 minute walk. Anyway , just for the fun of it I called the prefered school back up and guess what? They have a space for my eldest in yr4!! His was the most difficult one.
Thankyou all.
He will be starting after the christmas hols.
Thankyou santasmooningarse (how on earth did you come up with that?)
I had no idea that a diagnosis is not needed for a statement.
My poor gp got a proper earful from me I wouldn't budge from his room until he dragged his receptionist in to write a letter.
How could I get the statement.
I'd really appreciate any help santasmoonarse.
I THOUGHT THAT YOU HAD TO GET A DIAGNOSIS

Oooops I thought I deleted the last line

had a spell as SanctiMoanyArse but seemed more festive this way......

OK you can apply for a statement very easily. I will start a thread in SN and signpost teh biggest experts over this way but it's basically a matter of a letter, although you'd want to beack it up with as much info as you could obviously- paperwork being key in anything SEN related.

There's a model letter here and I really would recommend a call to SOS! SEN as they have lots of good advice

Angryma,
It strikes me that your LA and schools do not know what is going on.
Do they actually realise that since September the LA has been responsible for all admissions. The school should not be telling you it has places in year 4, it should be saying you have to go to the LA and ask for a place. the LA will then contact the school to confirm whether there is a spare place or not. I know it is a completely stupid system but that is what the Labour Government bought in!

Agree with Admission.

Did the LA offer your children places at the schools they talked about in the appeal when they refused entry to your preferred school? If they did and you rejected those places they have followed the correct process and it is just unfortunate that the places you were offered are no longer available. However, if you weren't offered places at those schools that is a different matter.

i wasn't offered the places the la simply said there are places available at these schools. There were three schools.
Anyway, I think I'll take my chance with the LGO.
I wanted to ask should I tell them that my child is currently seeing a psychologist for diagnosis of autism and assessment for statement?

The LGO will not re-hear the case. You can't, in general, give them new evidence. You can only argue that there have been procedural errors with your appeal or that the panel made a factual error. Telling them that your son is seeing a psychologist should have no effect on their decision. They will not look again at the evidence from the hearing. They certainly won't look at whether or not the panel was right about the relative strength of your case and the LA's case. They will simply make sure that the correct process was followed.

It does sound like your LA don't know what they are doing. I would normally expect them to offer you places at these other schools at the same time they refused to admit your children to the preferred school. If they incorrectly told the panel that there were places available at these schools you have a valid complaint because the LA has misled the panel. The LGO will not be impressed if the LA gave evidence that was untrue. However, if they just said there were places available elsewhere in the area but didn't name the schools that would be a different matter.

The best you can hope for from the LGO is that they will tell the LA to hold a new appeal with a fresh panel. I'm afraid, given the ridiculous PAN this school is using, I suspect the outcome of a fresh appeal will be the same as the first appeal. You might strike it lucky and get a sympathetic panel but my advice would be not to get your hopes up.

I believe that PRH has stated the situation correctly, you have a low chance of success with the LGO unless you can show that the LA really messed up badly. And they are right that anotehr panel is likely to come to the same conclusions. You need to make arrangements to get your children into the nearest school that has places for all 3 and then see what the LGO do.