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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Landlord applying for primary school

41 replies

Solarpowergirl · 07/12/2010 03:28

Hello -

Hoping someone will have come across a similar experience and can help shed some light. We have rented our current home for almost 3 years from a family who are working temporarily in Spain. The house is in the catchment area for a good primary school and we were just about to submit an application when DH was told that the family are returning in the Summer as they want their DD1 to start school in the UK.

Whilst we had speculated this might be the case, we are wondering if they can do this, given the applications have to go in now and they will somewhere down the line have to provide proof of council tax payment, way before the date of their actual return. Shouldn't we be entitled to apply for the place instead and then inform the school that our lease ended before school started?

OP posts:

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RoadArt · 07/12/2010 04:05

Ooh tricky. What a horrible situation to be in.

You applied because you live at the address at the time of application so there is no reason why it shouldnt be accepted.

Hopefully you have already applied and got written notice after this date, if you need to prove it?.

You cant get a place at a school until you have a permanent address so you cant apply for a place in a different school out of zone if you have to move. So this family wont be allocated a place until they move back into your house.

They might have bought this house with this in mind, to return when their DD was to start school.

Not sure where you stand, it might be worth ringing the council and ask them? they wont be allocating places until March time (I think). But you need to understand your options.

You could speak to the headmaster of the school and ask his views.

It will be interesting to see what advice you get from this.

Good luck

PositiveAttitude · 07/12/2010 06:38

You are in the house at the moment, so apply with that address.

I would NOT contact LEA or head about the fact that you might not be living in that address come next September.

This is assuming you want your DC to attend that school.

I assume you wont know now where you will be living in September, so go with where you are now. (and quick!!!)
I shouldn't worry about how the landlord is going to get a place, that's his worry!! Perhaps he does not realise how complex it all is and that he won't just be given a place because he moves into that area next summer.

MissusScrooge · 07/12/2010 07:11

Agree with positiveattitude do not contact Lea or school, apply as normal, you are living there at time of application, if you have to move before school starts shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't move before offer date. Maybe your landlord dd is applying for 2012? That would make more sense. However if they are using the same address for 2011 entry then that's their decision, nothing to do with you so don't worry.

Goingspare · 07/12/2010 08:47

Yes, apply, keep quiet, not your problem.

Your LL may not have thought this through properly, some people have no idea how complicated school admissions can be (my DH was thinking of applying for a new job in May of the year DD1 was due to start secondary school - not too far to commute, but he thought we might all like to schlep over there to live as the local schools were good. Er, applying in June/July for Sept.?)

Octavia09 · 07/12/2010 09:09

This is so complicated. I would write to the CAB. I think you can apply from this address but your landlord can do the same. When our LA asked us to prove our home address we did by showing our council tax. We had to move out because our landlord sold the house. But they asked for the proof in the summer, almost three months after we got the place at school. So, you and your landlord could apply from the same address and then the LA might ask both of you to show the proof. In the summer your landlord and not you is going to live in your present house. How this is going to work. Why do not you start looking for a house closer to the school than your present house? I think your landlord is giving you an informal notice to move out. Then two months before they move back they will send you a formal letter to move out. I think the landlords have to give a two-months notice. So, applly from this place but look for another in the meantime. Please write to your CAB too as they can give you a good legal advise for free.

FakePlasticTrees · 07/12/2010 09:19

Get your application in now - assuming you haven't had formal notice to leave the property, then you are basing the fact they are going to return on something your DH has heard, they might not if it's not official yet!

Apply, your place should be confirmed before you have to leave anyway. If there's any doubt about if you or your landlord lives in the house, well, you pay the council tax, are registered to vote (if not, get registered now!) and you have a tenancy agreement.

PositiveAttitude · 07/12/2010 09:45

The LEA cannot take the place away once it has been offered, UNLESS it has been fraudulently applied for. So, apply now, keep quiet. YOU will not be applying fraudulently. If you are out by the summer the place will be yours anyway!

Thromdimbulator · 07/12/2010 11:28

All that counts is that your primary residence is within the catchment area at the time of application. If your landlord wanted to guarantee his daughter a place he would need to have given you appropriate notice so that he could move back before the application deadline. You need to apply now, and as you presumably don't even know where you'll be living in September your current address is the only one you could or should use. When you do eventually move, you simply inform the school of a change of address. How your landlords get a place for their daughter is their problem. (With a bit of luck they won't manage it and you'll get to keep the house!).

SoupDragon · 07/12/2010 11:34

just apply for your DDs place and forget about it.

prh47bridge · 07/12/2010 12:29

You are resident at the house so you can apply from that address. As long as you are still living there when offers are made you should be fine. If you have to move out before offers are made you will have a problem - you will probably be treated as a late application which means you are unlikely to get a place at a popular school.

Some LAs say they will withdraw the place if you are not still living there when your child starts school. There is some doubt as to whether they can do this legally but check your LA's admission booklet. If it doesn't say that you must still be at the same address when your child starts school you are ok.

The landlord cannot legally apply using your address. It may be his house but he isn't living there. He needs to talk to the council.

BetsyBoop · 07/12/2010 14:19

what PRH said :)

prh47bridge · 07/12/2010 16:13

Panelmember · 07/12/2010 16:16

Everything that prh47bridge says.

SantasMooningArse · 07/12/2010 16:23

Everything that Prh said except don;t tell your LL to get advice LOL- I;m all for charity and kindliness but not shooting oneself in the foot when they could just issue a 2 month notice and get you out earlier (we just had similar when LL couldn;t decide if she wanted to extend 1 month after applciations for comp went in; nerveracking to say the least)

MumInBeds · 07/12/2010 16:33

I don't see you have any choice but to carry on, you only have that address from which you can (legally) apply.

Octavia09 · 07/12/2010 17:06

You never know when you are going to receive the notice. The landlord might contact the LA and the LA might advise them to move in asap. So, apply from this address but look for a house next to school if possible. We were not lucky to get a place in the catchment area but next to it. The LA knows that at the time there was no houses/flats to rent in the area.
As for the landlord they can apply now to this school and add a message that they are going to live at this address from this date. So, imagine if they say in the application that they are going to move into their old house within a few months. They have the rights to give you a two month notice wherever they want. Our landlord said sorry but I have to sell the house. And we got a notice a month before we got a place at the prefered school.

schoolsecretary · 07/12/2010 17:43

This happens all the time at our school, apply now in good faith and see what happens, if school is not oversubscribed then you may be able to keep the place.

nancydrewrockinaroundxmastree · 07/12/2010 17:55

I had a simialr issue from the other side (that of a Landlord living overseas)with my children starting school and making the application based on what our address would be.

I had lot of assistance from my LEA who said as I was moving from overseas I was permitted to make an application from the address that I planned to be living at. In the end I didn't have to provide any evidence but there was certainly space on the forms to show (their examples) tenancy agreement that was due to start/docs showing you were due to complete a sale/that you owned a property and the exisiting tenant had been given notice or any other supporting documents.

Bearing this in mind it may be perfect permissible for your LL to apply for a school place and the LEA's system may well flag up that there are two applications from the same address what tehy will then do I don't know but I assume if you don't yet have an address to which you plan to move they will permit both applications.

strandedatseasonsgreetings · 07/12/2010 18:01

Yes another landlord moving back to the UK who applied for a place, and was successful, using the address that we will be living in. However, we did have to go through the LEA and explain why we were overseas and why we were coming back. They were very helpful. So your LL's probably will be able to apply before they move home.

However that shouldn't stop you applying as well.

SantasMooningArse · 07/12/2010 18:06

The absolute worst case sccenario is that you treated as late to apply and get whatever nobody else wants.

if you apply and your LL moves back early that might happen

If you don't apply, that will happen

No brainer really!

admission · 07/12/2010 23:36

The landlord can do and say anything they want but as the current tennant it is your right to use the address for your application until as such time as the landlord gives you notice to quit. Obviously if that is before the date when the places are allocated then that will be a problem and you will need to inform the LA. If it is after the date of allocations then you have a right to use that address and be alloocated a school place on that basis.
I would expect any LA to confirm that the landlord cannot use the address until they have moved back into the house or at least agreed a date with you, so the timing is all important.

strandedatseasonsgreetings · 08/12/2010 00:16

admission - no, if the landlord is a crown civil servant on an ovesreas posting they have every right to use that address for that application before they return. I went through all of this last year.

But I am not sure where that leaves the present tenant (our tenants were not applying for a school place at the same time as us).

Original poster

Solarpowergirl · 08/12/2010 13:12

Thank you all so much for your responses.

LL's wife called this morning to explain the situation and was very sympathetic. She called the LEA who said we were both entitled to make an application on different grounds so panic over. Everything is clear and above board plus LL will give us time to find a new place. It is a stressful time though...

OP posts:

nancydrewrockinaroundxmastree · 08/12/2010 14:18

And indeed if you are not a crown servant on an overseas posting (I was not).

The LEA have the provisions to accept applications which relate to an address that is not currently lived in where there is an intention to return within the relevant time frame.

As I said in my pp there was the space on the form for this very issue. I assume overseas LL frequently return home when their children reach school age.

strandedatseasonsgreetings · 08/12/2010 15:38

Yes sorry I am sure that is right. I just wanted to explain what happened in our case - when I was going through the process last year I atually go accused on one thread of being dishonest and corrupting the system by applying from an address that I did not yet live in. But it was all done above board.

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