School closure dragging on

[sitdownpleasegeorge]

Grrrrrr at the newspaper headlines that 40% of workers are staying at home due to the snow. Some of us would be working if the schools were open or partially open.

Dh can get to his workplace an hour away by car (although it's taken 2 hours for the past couple of days). He and ALL his work colleagues are getting in to work despite the vastly increased travel times.

Main roads are fine, minor roads are passable with care. I can get to the school, the supermarket, the petrol station, the nearest B&Q, all the places I normally run about to and from. I've had to take the dc to work for an hour (with their nintendo ds to keep them quiet) to attend to urgent matters and pick up more some stuff to bring home which I am now failing to get done as I have the dc to see to/amuse/feed etc.

Neither dh nor I have 4WD vehicles, our cars are nothing special, both over 5 years old.

School however is closed for the fourth day today as not enough staff can make it in. I'm left wondering where they all live and why the staff that can get in can't organise to run a reduced school for the children of working parents so that the economy doesn't suffer so much.

I haven't seen any local businesses closed, just operating with reduced staff (no doubt possibly also due to school closures).

I've had to warn family who were due to visit between Christmas and New Year that I'll most likely be working those days now to make up the time I've had off this week. Unpaid time off is not a possibility unless there is no opportunity to make up the time before the end of the holiday year.

DrNortherner - if I have time off (in the NHS) due to snow I either have to make the time up ir have unpaid leave. I would imagine it's the same in Education

We had significant periods of school closures last (academic) year in this part of Wales. The county have suggested that if there were more than nominally 5 days closure that the school would have to stay open through the Easter holidays to balance this out.

I would happily petition the county council to maintain a minimum of 185 of the 190 teaching days that should be offered. It is a county council decision. Could you contact yours to ask their opinion and plan?

Gingernut I am now wondering if our kids are in the same school as that is the exact same scenario we have (does school bell ring a bell )

School is in small village and 3rd day running it is closed and I am grateful. I know where 2 of our teachers live and it is 35 mins drive on a normal day however that is accross a huge wood area that I can not imagine will have been cleared. I like both teachers and would much prefeer for them to be safe than to come into school to "provide essential child care"

I work part time I have sorted my hours around this to ensure that I can look after the kids that is what I have had to do. However my kids are able to realise that they have to be quiet whilst I work perhaps they are older than OP's (7-16) and perhaps they are able to understand. We have also luckilly got more than 1 computer.

the school my kids are in have left homework for the kids to sort I would perhaps check if yours has done so too OP and get them started on that.

Personally I am happy that they have closed the school down to me it was the safe sound thing to do. Both for students and for teachers.

FunkySnowSkeleton

Yes, I have, as naturally this is part of the argument for keeping schools open with a skeleton staff to ensure that working parents are able to keep working. Not enabling that one parent to go to work can the impact on 30 more sets of parents.

Lonnie, sounds familiar - should I namechange now LOL.

The dd's school is open (about the only one in the area) but i'm not risking driving the 10 miles to get them there as the council have not gritted the roads in our village. I don't think its worth the schools opening and risking lifes to get there.

When I was young, I can't remember the schools ever closing because of snow, and I'm old enough to be of the generation when we had snowy winters. We lived in a little village and occasionally when I was at secondary school the bus wouldn't show up and we'd get a day off, but the school was still open.

I now live in a big city and this week DS1 had two days of 'well we're sort of open but you should please take them home if you can' and a blanket closure yesterday. They were telling us to take them home again this morning, but we haven't had any snow since yesterday morning and the main roads are fine, so we've mostly sent them in.

I can't really understand in this area, where we are well used to snow and relatively well served by gritters and snowploughs why everyone except teachers can seemingly get to work.

I think the issue is also the safety of children getting into school and also home again. I know of a school where 70 children were stuck in the school until the early hours because getting back to heir villages had become so difficult.

What would happen if there was a school bus accident on untreated roads? Would the Head teachers then get a roasting on MN for forcing children into making a difficult journey?

Seems to me that schools cannot get this decision right either way and that parents, instead of inplying teachers are too lazy to get into work, should look to their own arrangements that has them relying too heavily on schools to babysit their children.

sorry...'implying'

Well, we live in the biggest city in Scotland, so it certainly isn't a case of anyone being cut off.

And I completely agree that schools shouldn't be regarded as babysitters (which is why i fundamentally disagree with the idea of a list of SAHM parents - the school is for everyone's DC, not just people who go out to work), but the economy relies on those parents working too, and if they can make it into work, I don't see why schools can't be open, certainly in urban areas like this.

I think the problem is that these days schools have set ratios. 30 years ago it was probably okay if the headteacher could get in and sit supervising 100-odd kids in the hall .

Can we just knock this "relying too heavily on schools to babysit children" crap on the head.

Any teacher with children at school is in the same boat but you don't see posters complaining that this is what they are doing.

Unless all working parents of school age children manage to bag an evening hours/weekend hours job we will be working pretty much 9-5 like a large proprotion of the non-parent population so please don't twist this into "using schools as free childcare". This seems to be a perennial, cheap SAHP snipe at working parents, let's not stoop to those depths. Imagine you had to go back to work next month, are you only going to work evenings and weekends so that you are not relying on the school for childcare during school hours.

I'm not asking that the skeleton staffed school teach my dc anything much/or at all on these snow days when some staff can't get in but others can (indeed it seems that the SAHP will otherwise be protesting that my dc are getting an unfair advantage) I would leave it up to their professional judgement to decide how to structure such a "school" day.

Bramshott and midnightexpress are right.

Our school never closed although my siblings and I were unable to get there once or twice and there were tales of Mrs X and Miss Y organising a singalong/reading poems/doing whatever in the hall to get through a day with the children who did make it in but the school never shut in all my 7 years of attending.

What are we teaching our dc if we all potentially write off days as soon as snow settles. That it's OK not to try your absolute best to get into work later on when they start their working life too.

sitdown - yes, I'm sure the logistics of setting up such a list would be easy to sort - we do it all the time with Parentmail, where we can send emails to anyone on any list, or combination of lists. But you'd still get other children turning up.

Incidentally, I work in a junior school which hasn't closed & have been in the office for the last two days helping register the late arrivals. All the staff are here,but by no means all of the children, including several who live very close and whose parents work. So it seems some parents may be grabbing any excuse for a snow day themselves....

Irritates to be unfairly critised, doesn't it!! I'll happily quit the 'babysitting' line when others stop with the 'lazy teachers' suggestions.

I get what you say about skeleton staff but, on the many occasions I have struggled in, we have been critisied also for not doing 'proper' lessons and wasting kids time.

There are other threads http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1096990-Daughter-goes-on-school-trip-and-stands-outside-freezing-most-of-the-day-Complain complaining about schools that have gone on as normal in cold weather.

My point is that schools don't take the decision to close lightly and please don't think that it is ever taken lightly and without great thought.

If you want a change in attitude then society in general here needs to gear itself up for snow and commit finances to the infrastructure that would get us working more like continental Britain. It is not so simple as to say its all the fault of the schools and, if only they could get their buts into school, all would be well.

sorry
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1096990-Daughter-goes-on-school-trip-and-stands-outside-freezing-most-of-the-day-Complain

You need at least fifteen children in a class to teach a lesson. I also live in Glasgow and it's horrendous. The motorways and main roads are fine, but the residential streets are a foot deep in snow, there have been no trains from the train station since Monday, the buses are turning up occasionally. It's not safe for kids to go to school in that.

Also, in Glasgow any teachers who do not arrive are having their pay cut. The ones who can't get in really cannot get in.

New boilers would go a long way in many schools and keep them open a bit more reliably . Is the main issue round here that they can't maintain a reasonable temperature throughout the buidling. Many schools are in a pretty horrific state of repair. From asbestos to boilers that break down very very often.

Re the suggestion that on snowy days only the children of 'working' parents get to go to school: I'm a childminder Mon to Wed- do I count as a working parent for those days? So then are my children allowed to go to school and see their friends like the children of working parents?

Or because I am working from home, am I a 'mere' SAHM, so my children have to stay at home with 3 toddlers?

Bit :( at the suggestion...

I think a working parents list is unworkable because how do you define "work"?

Is it only paid employment?

What about those who volunteer to:

• deliver meals on wheels?
• run elderly pop-in groups?
• run play sessions?
• run singing classes?
• help in school/library/hospital cafe?

etc

• run charity shops?

Or those who have other family commitments:

• look after other disabled or ill and elderly relatives or other children?
• do shopping for housebound parents?
• do cleaning/housework for frail relatives?

Or those who are studying or getting ready for job interviews?

Or those who are frail/unwell/ill/newly pregnant/just given birth who could do with the respite from their children?

It is not true that all SAHMs are just sitting at home, fit, able and idle, waiting for their precious darlings to get home again.

I think it would be impossible for a school to make value judgements based on which activities listed above were/weren't worthy. And also on which jobs could/couldn't be done from home or around children.

I don't see why jellybeans. Most children don't need to catch a bus or a train to get to school. If they're properly dressed it's perfectly safe. Younger children are generally walking or driving with their parents/carers and older ones should be able to walk down a snowy road without breaking their necks fgs.

I think we're all in danger of becoming a nation of wimps.

Lydhatt I don't need to quit pointing out the idiocy of the "school as cheap childcare" as it needs saying plenty at the moment and I've never in my life called any teacher lazy so I have nothing to trade with you.

Schools are using the logic that they have insufficient staff to safely accomodate everyone so they must remain closed. I'm saying this is damaging to the economy and to keep other parents working they should operate a reduced school with the staff who can get in to keep those parents who could work otherwise able to work.

sydenhamhiller

If you can't work it out I'll help you, ignoring the inflamatory "'mere' SAHM" and "are my children allowed to go to school and see their friends" references. (btw it's a matter of days, probably no longer than a normal weekend, why would your children suffer from not seeing their friends for such a short time ? You do seem to be making an emotional mountain out of an everyday molehill here.

You work, and if because of child to carer ratios you wouldn't also be able to have your own children at home on the Monday to Weds, you'd need to be counted in the working parent numbers as you're presumably keeping 3 other sets of parents working on those days.

It's not rocket science it's just common sense about keeping the UK working as far as possible. We all just have to make a bit more effort in adverse weather conditions.

Even if the headteacher can't make it into school, almost all schools should be able to function and carry out the "reduced school facilities" action plan if it has good internal organisation structures/procedures in place. (possibly excluding special needs schools as the teacher/pupil relationship may be too important a factor and disruption not good).

Sorry, I should have qualified that - most children in urban areas, I mean.

MrsDaffodil

Why are we bringing the sob factor into things ?

Most of your list of stuff is performed by people who feel able to donate their time whilst their dc are at school.

If their dc are at home sick presumably they don't do those things. Ditto snow days, luxury of time to donate is on hold temporarily. Some of those things listed could be performed by taking the kids along. I do some of that sort of stuff at weekends taking the dc with me.

sitdown...fair doos...no argument there then.
But my school hasn't ever used that as the reason for shutting and we generally open schools if at all possible. The reason we have shut now is because it is too dangerous for children and staff to try to get in. could you live with the consequences of an accident and injury caused by people trying to get to a school along dangerous roads?

In the event that some staff are struggling then the school stays open and senior management assess how many staff are in and how many kids have made it in too. then we adapt manage as best we can. This has bought complaints of time wasting before, with comments such as 'all they did was PE..and they might as well have stayed at home'. If we part open, it has been for year groups only and never based on the occupation of the parents. this is usually to accomodate exam classes.

We cannot win!!!

I'll say again...the decision to close is not taken lightly and please credit the management team with some sort of thoughtfulness and planning...even with the full force of ecomonic disaster laid at their door.

what a daft idea, only allow kids of working parents int the school......
what about kids who have exams coming up or just want to go to school??
school is not childcare(dd's school is shut and will be I imagine for a while)