Teachers, please help! Does it sound like DS is in the right set?

[LynetteScavo]

DS2 has always had trouble reading and writing.

And he's never been particularly good a maths...which is OK by me... his strength s lie in being creative, having an amazing imagination, and being very curious about the world around him.

He's now in Y3, and previously teachers have considered him a late starter; "It'll come together in Y2" (He did finally learn to read at Christmas in Y2) and "He's very wise" & "He has a great general knowledge" being the kinds of things teachers have said in the past.

Now though, he is on the next to bottom table in the class for both Literacy and Numeracy (the bottom table is made up completely of children who have English as a 2nd language, and haven't been in a UK school since reception). Most of the time his group have a TA working with them.

All this would be fine, apart from;

1)today his teacher told me that he was much better at Numeracy than Literacy, and he could manage more difficult numeracy than his group was doing, but he wouldn't be able to read the instructions if he was working without a TA.

2)He seems to have huge difficulty getting information from his brain, down his arm and written down on to the page (His writing is very neat, but it's very, very slow) His reading isn't too bad (I think(ORT stage 8), but he gets very tired after reading a couple of pages, and has to stop. Even if he's keen to read, it's as if his brain has become exhausted.

He is great at drawing...he's a fabulous little artist, and is sporty. He taught himself to ride a bike at 3.5.

I feel he's not learning as much as he could because he's not able to produce written work, or read quickly.

I really want to help him, but don't know what to do. His teacher assures me he is in the best group for him, as he gets help from the TA. In one way I agree, but I feel his little brain has so much to offer, and because he can't read and write well he is being held back from learning things such as punctuation, and producing decent pieces of creative writing (He has some fabulous ideas, and brilliant vocab' but can't translate them into writing)

What can I do to help him?

must dash so quick response. with regard to writing, do you allow him to use a computer? more and more schools allow children to "write" this way because its the ideas that teachers want to see. Other options are to write with different media other than pencil on paper.

Our school focusses on reading first and gets this efficient before focussing on the maths for the very reason you mention - if you cant read the question you cant answer them. They still do a lot of verbal and physical maths but keep away from the written stuff.

I assume he's had his eyes tested and has been checked for glue ear? Sounds rather like my little boy - who's 14 now and at grammar school doing OK - have they done any screening for dyslexia or processing issues?

Eyes and ears all OK.

There is lots of dyslexia in our family, but every teacher he's has so far thinks dyslexia is unlikely.

DH very reluctant to pay for dyslexia testing (long story) and it would be financially difficult atm. It's one of those things I keep putting off.

goingmadinthecountry, what do you mean by processing issues?

I wouldn't worry at all about what table he is on. I would concentrate on trying to find out why he finds reading and writing so tiring, and how you can speed them up.

Sounds to me like 2 totally seperate problems.

Reading being tiring is one problem - possibly a vision one.

Writing being slow is a diff problem - possibly more physical based.

If you don't solve those problems now while he is young he will continue to struggle all his life....

I would go and ask the school what they are doing to help him. How they are working with him to improve his literacy and numeracy. Contact parent partnership, and think about requesting the LEA assesses his literacy needs.

You can also post on the SEN boards for more information on how to fight for the help your son needs. Basically it sounds as if your sons school is neglecting the poor readers as it has hard pressed resources and a lot of EAL children. You unfortunately are going to have to fight for his needs to be met (good luck!).

Thank you.

I've decided I will have him assessed for dyslexia, then at least it's something I can rule out.

It makes me a bit cross that I have to fight for him to be educated appropriately, but hey.

Mmm, must be frustrating for you. What do teachers know anyway, its not like they are professional people who studied at university for years on how to educate and nurture children. Think with your insight you should consider home education.

Anti, as the mum of a dyslexic son (and as a teacher who has now taken a postgrad qualification in the subject) I can assure you that you always need to fight for a dyslexic child. Nothing at all to do with the teachers in my ds's case, just the system. I was told by sec schools that he would receive no SN support as he was doing way better than most of the intake, regardless of the fact he was significantly underachieving in some areas for his ability. They agreed it was wrong, but when there's only a certain amount of funding...

LynetteScarvo, lots of schools have someone qualified to carry out a screening test which they do as a first step towards deciding if a child is dyslexic. This DST also has an early years version. May just give pointers, but it could encourage teachers to take your concerns seriously. Round here, a specialist dyslexia teacher goes into various schools to carry out the tests. Have never done them myself though.

Totally agree with Cat64 - had forgotten that ds used an old dictaphone. He also used to do strip cartoons for story telling. Also I used to scribe for him, always noting it in homework. Touch typing has been a godsend for him too. There's now even a GCSE with more talking modules.

The last two posts are really helpfull, and have given me lots to think about!

Antihelicopterparents, I have posted asking what I can do to help DS, not slate his teachers. (Last years teacher was absolutely magnificent, and he made huge progress in her class.) But I could show you a few teachers who despite spending years at university struggle to educate and nurture every one of the 30 children in their class.

I'm not really bothered where about in the class he is in relation to the other children, but I do think he is being held back in some areas due to his weak reading and writing.(For example I've been told he could be doing more complex maths, but because he can't read the instructions independently he's still doing simpler maths. My argument would be that he should be helped with the instructions,whilst working with children of a slightly higher ability, but with one teacher and one TA for the class I understand there just isn't the adult support available.

I need to find out why his reading/writing are so weak, so we can help him progress. I don't believe in sitting back and expecting the school to do 100% of the educating of my children.

If he's not dyslexic, brilliant, but I think we are now at a point where it either needs to be ruled out or confirmed.

For now I won't be home schooling DS2. When it gets to the pint where his teacher is failing to educating him, nurture him, and care for him to the point that he school refuses, runs out of school during the day when his father and I have managed to physically get him into school, wets his bed every night, and sobs that he wishes his teacher was dead, it's something I may consider.

Been there, got the t-shirt, met the teachers who are unable to appropriately educate and nurture with DS1, thanks.

Hope you amused your self with your sarcasm, Antihelicopterparents.

" Does it sound like DS is in the right set?"

"It makes me cross I have to fight for him to be educated appropriately."
" I could show you a few teachers who struggle to educate. "

Sounds like teacher bashing to me. My sarcasm didnt amuse me incidently, I am constantly saddened by the negativity and lack of respect shown to teachers. Is it any wonder todays children ( not all) have appalling behavioural issues at school when their parents question and challenge the teachers professional judgement. Tell me, if a doctor, lawyer or dentist gave you their opinion, would you query that too?

"I'm not really bothered where about in the class he is in relation to the other children, but I do think he is being held back in some areas due to his weak reading and writing.(For example I've been told he could be doing more complex maths, but because he can't read the instructions independently he's still doing simpler maths. My argument would be that he should be helped with the instructions,whilst working with children of a slightly higher ability, but with one teacher and one TA for the class I understand there just isn't the adult support available."

That's the one concern that jumped out at me. I am surprised to hear that his class has the same groups for maths and English- that sounds very strange to me. I have always had separate groups for each. Also, in year three I would not expect children to be reading lots of instructions for maths. I would expect most of the instructions for tasks to be explained verbally. Obviously if they are working on word problems this is more difficult, but he could be seated next to someone who is a more able reader, so that they could read through the questions together.

For a teacher to say that he is routinely being given work that is not challenging him, and to be happy with the situation, is not on IMO.

This is ridiculous. I don't understand what she means by 'reading the instructions'. My Maths lesson very rarely involve the children having to do lots of reading without having the activity explained to them or discussed with them beforehand. Is this teacher just using text books or something?

"Tell me, if a doctor, lawyer or dentist gave you their opinion, would you query that too?"

Yes of course I would!

On several occasions with DD in hospital I have asked for a 2nd opinion, and all but once a more senior doctor has given a different opinion and changed treatment, I have had the optician and orthopist disagreeing over DS1's prescription, what did I know, but if DS is telling me he can't see quite as well as before, I have to question it. Luckily I've never needed a lawyer.

No one from any profession gets it right all the time, oh how I wish I'd questioned the hairdresser when he suggested I have a fringe.

As someone who grew up in a family of teachers, and have friends who are teachers I know all too well they are far from perfect.

And yes, unfortunately, I could certainly show you a few teachers who have struggled to educate my children. Luckily they are few and far between, and there are some amazing teachers who have successfully picked up the pieces and mended the damaged and and bent over backwards to give my child what they need.

If you think no parent ever has to fight to have their child educated properly then you are sadly deluded. DS1's head teacher admitted to me he knew this was true, and also acknowledged that teachers often make mistakes, but as they make 1000 decisions on a daily basis it's only to be expected. He was one of the "go the extra mile" teachers and I cried when he retired.

I wouldn't enter into a debate with that poster LS. There are plenty of useless teachers as indeed there are plenty of useless doctors, lawyers etc. Your OP doesn't pass any judgment on teaching at all.

As far as processing goes google visual and auditory processing and see if anything fits your ds. The SENCO should be able to do a test to indicate what issues your ds has and then you can get the appropriate referral/help.

Obviously none of us know your son or his strengths and weaknesses so anything we say is based purely on the information you have shared.
Having said that I personally have a problem with a TA sitting with one group of children all the time. It isn't good for the class and it isn't good for the group to become over reliant on her being there. As has already been said static groups for English and Maths is bad practice and children should move between groups according to needs.
I would also ask what is the class teacher doing while the TA is static with the EAL group?

Perhaps I should add I'm posting as a parent (who's child encountered a number of teachers who were unable to adequately support his needs)a teacher and a SENCO who would be unhappy to see one group supported to the exclusion of others.

LS, the miserable poster should indeed be ignored. I get the impression you are rather like me and will entirely ignore her inappropriate posts. What concerns me is that some others may not have the confidence to ignore such tripe.

As a teacher, I know of many others who do not do what we hope they will. Of course, I know of lots of utterly great teachers as well. But a child who has probelms accessing the curriculum will always do better with an articulate parent who will fight for them. When parents turn up demanding the best for their children (in a nice way of course) I know the children stand a better chance.

LS, point taken, sorry if I offended you.

Goingmad, think you will find it's spelt "problems."

That'll be the red wine (don't worry, wasn't working today). As an aside, you may wish to get a good grasp of apostrophes before picking on typos.

It's means it is, drop the "i", replace with an apostrophe. Shocking for a teacher.

I know that perfectly well.

Pity you missed it on Thursday 25th at 22.40 then seeing you know such a lot about it. Didn't also has an apostrophe for the same reason as it's a contraction.

Am off to do something interesting as you're now winding me up and it's really not worth stooping to your level. I didn't start off intending to be pedantic; grammar isn't everyone's strong point, and I hate people feeling worried about putting their feelings across. I just thought you were being far too quick to judge the OP.