Class size and admissions

[AdelaofBlois]

Another tedious admissions question I'm afraid, and this time one where I just don't know the answer, and where I am being utterly selfish.

DS1 has a speech disorder consistent with, although perhaps not, dyspraxia. He's much better than most, but his speech does take time to tune into, and he suffers particularly when saying things that are unusual for his age group (he has a very precise vocab that we are only just becoming aware of as his speech improves-e.g. penne for pasta where appropriate). Everyone consulted (nursery, SaLTs) has stressed that he should be MS schooled, but that he really needs small class sizes.

And there's the rub, class sizes seem determined up to a limit during the admissions process. So how can you tell whether this year will reflect the next, especially given schools which achieve highly because of small classes rapidly attract more applicants? And how would we know when allocated places how many other children were also allocated palces?

Ultimately I think that the whole idea is impossible for us-we will use the maintained sector and most schools where we live are running at 24-30 this year. There are smaller rural schools around, but can't see how we can collect by 3 every day (and these schools understandably have less after school provision).

Any suggestions?

move?

it's really bad timing for you as schools are having to add on new classes in order to accommodate the growing number of children. It sounds like your only option is to go private:-(.

I don't think you will be able to know in advance how many children have been allocated places.

Some school intakes vary greatly from one year to another, some are consistently full.

I work in a school which draws from a wide catchment - some of our year groups have 45 (which is our maximum intake number), while others have less than 30. This means that we run several mixed age classes.

Don't panic too much about the class sizes but try and concentrate more on the schools themselves and how you think they will otherwise be able to help your DS. Choose the one that seems to have the best attitude to helping him to deal with his problems.

My DD#1 has (likely) dyspraxia and possibly other issues. She is now in yr1. Her school have been fab with her I am pleased to say. She does not have a statement (yet) and the school do 1:1 extra help with her three times a week as part of her IEP to help with her speech and with her fine motor skills (writing etc). It has really helped her keep up with the "average" in her year, and it has helped her to be happy at school too. Having visited schools before we put our applications in we got a very definate good feeling about the school she is at. Obviously you do need to look at the criteria of the schools/LA for selection and try to ensure you include at least one choice that you are likely to be offered otherwise you may find yourself being allocated schools you didn't even consider if the other choices fail.

I would also say that you should seriously consider trying to get a statement for him too if you can. If you manage this it will put a legal obligation in place for provision for his needs. If you have not already found the SN boards on mumsnet then do come and take a look and ask for help there.

I am afraid that the people advising you simply do not understand the situation in most primary school classes. The maximum class size as an infant class is 30 with one school teacher and the reality is that the finances do not allow the school to have much less than 25 in a class.
So whilst SALT and the nursery are well intentioned they are living in a make believe world.

I agree with admission.

Yes the only way to ensure small class sizes in England is to go private.

Even in a small school, classes will usually be 20+ ie years double up.

At one point my DS2 was in a class of 22 for various reasons (state infants); however this is very usualy IME and now there are 26 in his class.

Thank you admission. I phrased the question badly-I wasn't really 'advised', I just asked those who work with him on speech and in settings equivalent to school if they had any opinion on what would make the most difference with him, they instantly said class size.

DS would I think do well from mixed age classes-he has relatively good concentration skills and receptive language, and certainly came on leaps and bounds at pre-school before the rising fives left. Whether he is 'academic' or not is obviously incredibly hard to judge given age and speech-he is very good at matching and pattern forming, and has 2 Oxbridge academics as parents, but his life is not ours rewritten (nor would we wish it to be). I don't think a statement is possible-his speech is tunable in to over time and when I raised it with the SaLT on diagnosis she said no. But I have alerted HV, SaLTs and nursery that their support might be needed in any appeal.

At the moment am basically drawn to closest schools and large multi-class entry schools (where class sizes are slightly smaller and I feel SENCOs are more practically experienced). Might consider private, but it would have to be a short-term fix until speech cleared up and I'd still need a place for him. Equally, might consider leaving him in nursery and educating him at home (he's an August birthday). Moving is a theoretical option, but asking our employers to is not, so the school run issues don't resolve themselves.

Anyway, this wasn't supposed to be an individual advice session, just a query on class sizes. The advice seems to be 'gamble', and don't fixate on this. That's what I'd thought, even if not heartening. Thank you all.

Would a better tac be to look at those schools with good SEN records and a sound understand of your needs?

Adela (Great name btw! who was she married to??) I don't think you shpuld "gamble" on this and no-one is telling you to.

You need to find a school that will suit yr DS and you (SEN provision, quality of school in general, closeness to you etc) and not fixate on class sizes, because in a state school they are basically going to be the same.

I have had three children through infants (the same school admittedly) and the class size variable has been from 22 to 29. So none I would describe as "small".

That will be about the size of it. If the school you pick is one-form entry and is popular then you are pretty much assured a class of 30.

Otherwise it will probably be 25+. To worry about this is a total red herring IMO unless private is an option.

Sorry, badly phrased as ?gamble?, although that is what it feels like. I?m somehow trying to pick a school for a completely unknown quantity (young and speech limited). Even SEN provision isn?t great as a guide because his future progress so unclear-it maybe that once his ears are sorted and with more sound therapy he is speaking understandably and confidently by the end of Reception, or he may never speak clearly throughout school. I?ll go for the school I feel will respond best to any learner, as I think I would have done anyway, but it is annoying. I may consider keeping him back a term or two if he is allocated a school I think he would thrive in when speaking clearly, just to see if his speaking improves.

More importantly, since you?re interested, Adela of Blois (1062?-1137) was daughter of William II of Normandy (the Conqueror) and Matilda of Flanders. She pops up in most English history as the mother of King Stephen (of highly inaccurate Pillars of Earth fame). Yet she also took on the running of a major French principality, witnessing her husband?s (Stephen of Blois) charters from their marriage in 1080, ruling for herself on his behalf during his absence on (and cowardly flight from) the first crusade and then, from 1101 to 1107 (after her husband?s death attempting to redeem himself, supposedly because she refused to shag a coward) in her own right, before handing authority to her eldest son, Theobald. She coupled these administrative and political successes with wide intellectual patronage, and corresponded with two of the leading intellectuals of her day (Anselm and the cannon lawyer Ivo of Chartres). To me she represents much about medieval women: individually capable by distinction of class, education and drive of ruling men and of genuinely being their equal as a titled ruler, but with a life pattern and political goal which was largely controlled by or lived through men. But mainly she shows us the need to rethink trite assumptions about simpering wimple glad beauties.

Here endeth that lesson.

fab adela,I enjoyed reading that...thank you!

Glad I am not the only one who likes reading about the historical women behing the 'headlines'...I'll keep an eye out for her...

liking the adela lesson!

I am always rathe rimpressed at her mum as well, founded an abbey in Caen, founded dynasty with William the Bastard - he was 6ft and she was less than 4ft so they must hav emade quite a couple!

Matilda lesson will follow (she also ran England in William's absence on the continent...)