taking kids out of school for holidays.

[triplets]

Hi, this is on behalf of my bother, he lives nr Durham and his daughter is in yr 2 at the local catholic primary school.They applied to take her out for 2 diff holidays, booked them, but school now say they are withdrawing the request and that no-one will be granted time off again. Can they really do that?

It isnt black and white, I work shifts and I know for a fact that I will not be able to book any leave from work during the school holidays ( bastards)
So if I want a fmaily holiday I wll have to take my DS out of school - we are taking aweek in Januaary.
Fortunately my head master is very sympathetic.

What are th consequences if the Head doesnt authorise?

As far as I know, it gets marked as truancy (unauthorised absence). If there is a regular pattern of this type of absence then the educational Welfare Officer will start getting involved, writing letters and even making home visits.
The natural progression will eventually lead to court adn fines etc.

However, a one off in the year would not warrant any of this

Blu - they do that in Belgium too. It was made perfectly clear that if you didn't turn up on 1st September when school started, you could lose your place.

Yet I've known of a case where a family moved away during the holidays and didn't bother informing the school. School eventually found out they had moved but couldn't give another child a place (long waiting list) until the family had actually told the school they didn't want the place.

Gosh I have stirred up a hornets nest! It seems then to vary from area to area.My niece never has time off sick, thye can only manage to get enough money tog for a holiday if they do it in term time. Do you think it does harm when they are in primary school, say up to yr 2/3? I took my trio out for 5 days three weeks ago, exceptional circumstance I know, my husband is battling bowel/liver/lung cancer, had just finished 6 months awful trial chemo and now goes into hosp in London on Sun for liver/lung resection and ileostomy reversal all in one go. School instantly granted my request over the phone, we went to Center Parcs and had a wonderful time, 3 bed executive villa which cost £419 for 4 nights. We would love to have gone this half-term but the same villa is £1,733 pounds!Just no way can we afford it. Maybe the answer is for the government to put a stop on the extortionate charges these companies make!

Actually those disagreeing, you will actually find that authorising holidays is a governing body role, hence why the governors have a policy. Remember the head in most cases is a governor and they more than likely have been left with this responsibility by the governing body. Maybe it is different in the school I used to work in, but it is the governing body that makes the policy and ultimate decision. Hence, if you disagree with the ht's decision, you can appeal to the wider governing body.

triplets So sorry to read of your very worrying and difficult circumstances. Glad that the break at Centreparcs was wonderful. Under our policy the Governors would have given authorisation to you under the 'unique or special/one off' exception. However in the example in your posting we would say it is unauthorised.

Teachers I'm afraid the government disagrees too

Holidays during term time - what the law says

You should not normally take your child on holiday in term time - it can be disruptive both to your child's learning and to the school. Schools will only consider holidays in term time where both:

* <strong>the application is made to the -headteacher- in advance of the holiday by a parent the child normally lives with</strong>
* there are special reasons for needing to take the holiday, like the inflexibility of the parents? holiday leave

Applications should be made as far in advance of the holiday as possible and you should speak to the school before you book. Schools will only agree to more than 10 school days of absence in any school year in exceptional circumstances.

Just to clear up the issue of removal from school roll - School can off roll after 20 days unauthorised absence as long as they and the LA have attempted to locate the pupil. If they're non-compulsory school age then you can off roll after 20 days absence for no good reason.

So far as who grants the absence the legislation states that it's

'a person authorised in that behalf by the proprietor of the school'. Which is usually the head.

Actually if you look further down on your link it says in some schools, such as VC, that it is the governing body who set the rules and this has been the type of school I've worked in.

Sorry meant VA not VC

If you read the link it says in VA schools governors set term dates but not that they are responsible for giving permission for holidays in term time.
I've also taught in VA schools and letters were always referred to the Head.

The legislation relating to maintained schools is here .

DS2's school have tightened up their absences. There used to be 10 days at the HT discretion but she says she won't sign them any more. You might get the odd day but no sign off for holidays.

As a governor at DS1's school we don't even set the policy on holiday related absences. The HT tells us what she is doing and we certainly don't look at the applications. That is as it should be imo, particularly as a most of the governors (although not me) seem to have taken their children out of school for hols at some point too! She has also tightened up on signing the forms.

Oh well msz, I've taught in 3 schools where it was referred to the governors and not the head, so I guess we have different experiences. I wouldn't claim to know everything, just quoting from my experiences.

No offence intended Teachers but your LAs seem to have their own way of doing things all round

I have a phD (not bragging, just showing that I really do value education!), but don't think young children miss out by going on, say, one family holiday per year in term time. However, when my son started school last year we were told that time out for holidays will no longer be authorised and we might possibly be fined if we did it. The problem is, unless you are in a job where you get the same 13 weeks of paid holiday as teachers it can be awfully difficult to get time off with your partner in the high-demand school holiday period, especially, as I work for the same (emergency) organisation as your other half. The teachers at my son's school seem to find this awfully difficult to grasp!

my ds current school allows ten days but that if they only have attendance over 95% if it is under that than the ht will not authorise it, my opinion is that they learn so much been on holiday in some way the holiday turns into an educational visit

MarkLiamPiggott - If you want to write an unbiased piece, rather than just a rant about your head ("our head is proving rather obstructive") backed by mumsnetters experiences, I suggest you ask for responses from schools and teachers as well. Try posting a similar request on the tes in primary and headteacher sections.

I had a similar problem. Originally I had a holiday verbally agreed. Than it was declined because school was basically told by EWO that they could no longer agree it. I had already booked and holiday was for a family wedding so we went anyway. We were told we would be issued with a penalty warning notice and we would be charged if we did it again. No notice was issued to my knowledge.