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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Children who don't show what they are capable of at school?

24 replies

NorhamGardens · 27/10/2010 15:02

Thinking of my DC in Y2 in particular.

They are capable of so much more than they show in school and can be underestimated, unsurprisingly, by the teacher.

Anyone else have a child like this?

Does there come a time when the demonstrate their understanding?

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jamaisjedors · 27/10/2010 15:04

I was like this for a while in school.

I already knew how to read and write before Reception but I deliberately did my work slowly so that I didn't have to go out to play.

My mum was called in to tell her I was a bit "slow".

The teachers soon realise, and anyway, I can't see what harm it can do, as long as they are doing the work given them.

GoreRenewed · 27/10/2010 15:07

Yes there does come a time. But it helps if their teacher is able to see through the smokescreen and encourage them.

treas · 27/10/2010 15:23

When my dd was in Yr 2 I was really frustrated by the fact that she would get by on what she knew and her teachers did not seem to believe me when I told them she was capable of more - especially if they actually asked more of her, which they never would.

To be honest when it came time for the dreaded SATs I was expecting dd to get an average score as this is what the teachers were predicting, even though I knew she was capable of achieving a level 3. However, her teachers informed me that a level 3 is a difficult level to achieve for a Yr2.

Therefore, you can imagine how smug I was when dd achieved 3cs in all her SATs.

As a result dd's Head teacher wrote in her end of year report that they were expecting great things from her in Yr3 - mind you they should have been expecting more from dd if they had actually listened to me in the first place.

Sad thing was my dd was not the only child to exceed the expectations of her teachers in her class - which suggest to me that the teachers expectations of their pupils was incorrect to begin with!

Litchick · 27/10/2010 15:31

There is a little guy in the school where I volunteer who I think has a fabulous grasp of creative reading/writimg and thinking.

He is way ahead of his peers, and more in line with my own DCs who are a. older and b. live with a writer so are used to having booky discussions almost daily.

But because he can't jump through the hoops that teachers think makes someone clever, he is assumed unintelligent. His creativity isn't recognised or valued as afar as I can see.

Original poster

NorhamGardens · 27/10/2010 15:42

Litchick can you explain further? I am hopeful he will get there in the end :) and surprise them all!

Which hoops can't he jump through?

My work was always spoilt through poor presentation.

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MollieO · 27/10/2010 15:48

I'm interested in this too. Ds is also in yr 2 and has decided the best way of demonstrating his ability is to do no work at all. His teacher and the SENCO aren't concerned as he is average in the class.

I've got a meeting after half term to discuss my concerns. [pushy parent emoticon]

Litchick · 27/10/2010 15:54

Norham - his writing is quite poor in terms of letter formation. And he has trouble spelling. And he is quite slow.

However, for a child of his age he has an innate sense of story. If I am reading aloud to a group and ask any questions or ask for observations, his always stand out. To me anyway.
And his creative writing is brilliant in terms of its creativity if not its accuracy.

It seems to me though, that this is not something that the school sets much store by.

MollieO · 27/10/2010 16:10

Litchick that sounds like ds's school. I assume at some time in their school life having a vivid imagination will be a good thing, but not yet. [hgrin]

BuckBuckMcFate · 27/10/2010 16:12

I have one too, yet another Yr2.

He has been pretending that he couldn't read. His teacher sent him off for a reading test and he easily read Level 7.

His (lovely) teacher asked me in and told me she was astounded and that she would be coming down hard on him and pushing him so to expect tales of her being an evil teacher.

DS2 hates not mastering something straight away and nose spite face sums him up. When he was learning to ride his bike he couldn't stand having any assistance or being watched. He announced that he would do it himself, disappeared down an alley and rode out confidently 10 minutes later.

I often think that this level of determination will do him well in the future but would be really interested to know how I can encourage/help him to understand that he doesn't have to perfect at every task 1st time round and that practise and mistakes are all part of learning.

LIZS · 27/10/2010 16:14

We find if dd(9) is underestimated she underperforms She's one of the youngest and small for her age.

MollieO · 27/10/2010 16:20

I wonder at what age being stubborn becomes viewed as being determined? Ds is incredibly stubborn and that certainly doesn't help him at school. However outside school I can see the benefits, eg had a nasty fall from a pony and was determined to get straight back on and sort it out (I was dithering as to whether he should or not).

Notquitegrownup · 27/10/2010 16:27

Litchick

I used to teach secondary English and left when the National Curriculum was introduced for precisely this reason. I looooved working with people like the child you are describing. They can record their stories on tape, or read them aloud, so that they don't need to be corrected, and handwriting/spelling/doesn't matter.

Tell him he could become a great writer but that he might have to wait until he is older and can write stories, or record them, in his own time. Plant the seeds of the dream in him. They might just stick.

potplant · 27/10/2010 16:36

Some people are just not academic types but fulfill their potential in other ways (although I think Yr2 is a bit too early to tell).

At last parents evening the teacher mentioned to me the thing you say - poor presentation. She said that she knows he is very good at maths but because his handwriting is so dreadful sometimes she can't tell if he is right or wrong. She thinks this will affect his YR2 SAT scores.

Original poster

NorhamGardens · 27/10/2010 16:53

Notquitegrownup, that's brilliant advice. It could change a life!

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IndigoBell · 27/10/2010 17:29

PotPlant - if they are that concerned about his SATS, which he will be sitting in 9 months - WTF is he not on a handwriting intervention???

There is absolutely no reason at all why a child can't make dramatic improvements in their handwriting over the course of a whole year.

MollieO · 27/10/2010 18:16

Ds videos his with my old IPhone. He is currently teaching a class of 15 children (all invisible) in his bedroom [hgrin].

Litchick · 27/10/2010 18:52

Ah well, many a great film director had trouble at school...

potplant · 27/10/2010 21:41

Indigo - He does have extra handwriting practice and we have worksheets to do at home. The teacher has said that the teacher assesment can over rule the overall mark?

He's doing the Yr2 SATs not YR6.

IndigoBell · 28/10/2010 17:01

There is no test mark - only a teacher assessment (in Y2). Which is why it is ridiculous for her to say that she won't be able to assess his maths if his handwriting is bad.

thecaptaincrocfamily · 28/10/2010 23:41

I think this seems to be a common complaint. DD1 didn't speak up in pre-school and for that reason people didn't understand why I felt she was ahead for her age. At 3.11 she started trampolining to give her another focus, she started on level 3. Now at age 4.9 yo she is on level 6. Doing complexed routines is more than just physical aptitude, it involves listening, taking complicated instructions, taking turns well etc. None of these seems to be recognised in the cirriculum.... just whether they can repeat letters. DD1 started school in September able to spell out loud most 4 letter words if they sounded the same as the spelling. We are back at letter recognition and learning sounds.

Sorry rant over!

potplant · 29/10/2010 09:17

Indigo - Perhaps I misunderstood about the SATs then. She said that they do the tests in special books but she can overrule the mark he gets if he does badly.

She said she knows he can do the work because when she talks through his work he can explain how he got the right answer. She just can't read what he's written.

I'm not at all bothered about the mark he gets in his Yr2 SATs btw. He's only 7.

Rouso · 02/11/2010 13:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kissingfrogs · 02/11/2010 21:43

I'm puzzling a similar thing too. Dd2 "appears" to struggle (at school and home) yet has flashes of brilliance (only at home). Eg she sometimes picks up a book way beyond her reading level and reads aloud accurately, then the next day she appears to struggles with a simple really low level book. Started to happen with maths too.

I did once tell her teacher who tried reading an advanced book with dd2 that day and dd2 couldn't even manage 1 sentence. I felt like a deluded mother.

I'm still figuring this out. I feel as if she either does the "can't do" bit as she feels that is what she is supposed/expected to do, or there's a mighty ON/OFF switch in her head that runs erratically. It's bizzare...

Feenie · 02/11/2010 22:05

Indigobell is right - the Y2 teacher assessment is made up from lots of evidence, a small part of which is the tests. If he works at a certain level, he works a certain level - one test result wouldn't affect a wealth of other evidence.

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