academic differences between siblings

[baby24]

Has anyone else had experience of one very academically bright dc and another one not so academically able? I know there are much more important things than academic success but just wondered how you handle it.

Cory - my DS2 was asked from early at high school if he would help with the sound and lights for the school shows. As he is techie mad he loves this and it has won him no end of praise. Would you DS like this side of drama?

I feel guilty writing this as my dd is not even at school yet. My ds has always appeared to be very academically able from an early age and stood out from his peers in the things he could do although we didn't teach him to read and write before school. Since being at school he has proved to be very able in everything except PE. He is also very sociable, friendly, cofident and a sunny, laid back disposition.
My dd is a beautiful very loving, caring little girl(she is 3.5). She has extremely good fine motor skills - draws faces with eyes with pupils, nostrils etc., can write her name and could since 2 years. Great at cooking,fab at make believe playing, fantastic sense of humour - loads of great attributes. She started talking very late and still struggle with people she doesn't know.
My ds is so clever (not just in a PFB way) that i find myself praising him a lot and wonder if my dd feels this. I too feel guilty that i didn't spend as much 1 to 1 time with my dd as i did with my ds when he was little.

Thanks for the suggestion, Sherbie. He has never showed any interest in tech (is unusually clumsy and cack handed), but if somebody other than me suggested it, maybe it might work. He won't set foot near the drama classes though as his sister goes to those. Oh dear, I am beginning to sound as negative as him...

What we really need is a male role model. That won't be dh though: clumsy and a bit dreamy and only really into art and architecture and traditional female skills.

He did show some slight interest in photography at the weekend. Maybe that is the way to go.

Thank you Indigo, makes me feel a bit better but he is nearly 6 and in YR1. So he should have a grasp of one more/one less. I think that is Yr1 term 1, not sure though. I do sometimes worry that I might expect too much of DS2 because it is tempting to judge his efforts against his brothers successes.

Baby24, maybe circular is right, maybe it is more about natural ability rather than time invested. I am hoping so.

Friends and family often comment that they think DS2 is a bright spark. I think he comes over well because he is very confident and sociable. He asks questions and is very interested history and he is more creative. I am hoping he might take off later. I was a late starter who didn't read until I was eight.

Cory can you not unplug the tv and insist he find something else. How is your DS at the moment. Is he interested in computers, what about collecting up old bits and let him build a pc? would that interest him? You often find stuff advertised free on freecycle that is not working/out of date. So it doesn't need to cost anything.

DS1 is keen to volunteer at our local steam railway. He's a bit too young but he is ticking off the time until he can get stuck in. Would your DS like volunteering, start a school/kids magazine and raise money for charity???

MMM - luckily I haven't had any experience of severe difficulties with learning / teaching Maths.

But IMO one of two things is happening, either your son is just a bit too young and he will grasp adding any day now.

Or he has something like Dyscalcula.

Either way, I don't see how you working can be responsible.

Obviously MRZ will now if he should be able to add by now, or if this is perfectly normal...

*know

Indigo, he doesn't seem to have problems with magnitude or spatial concepts so I am hoping it will sort its self out in time. I did a bit of research on dycalculia because of teaching maths. Its more common than people think.

Does your daughter notice that your DS is ahead of her? How does she feel? It must be quite difficult. My situation is easier, I think, because the obviously bright DS is much older than the DS2.

Yes, my DD knows DS is ahead of her, and it is severely impacting her. She won't read at home because of it.

But she puts a really brave face on.

She does all her other homework and her spellings, and she reads at school with a TA instead of at home because they know of the problem.

Thanks, minimaths. The TV is actually quite strictly rationed- and most days of the week he doesn't get to watch at all: but he spends his non-watching hours slumped on his bed listening to music or playing with his ds or just lying there.

The one other thing he does (when his joints aren't playing up) is kick his football obsessively against the front door. He does attend football club, but tbh he is getting to the age where it is becoming more about playing matches- and he has never been picked to play in a match in his entire life. (Even without the disability, I suspect he is simply not very good at it. )

He has never shown any interest in building anything, whether lego or meccano or woodwork or taking things to bits. Tbh he is less practical, I would say, than most children his age (he is 10). He is not good at IT either and shows no interest in programming or understanding how computers work. He is somebody who struggles with tying his shoelaces, using cutlery, telling the time. And who shows no interest whatsoever in understanding how things work. We try to encourage dcs to be practical about the house, fix themselves hot drinks, do basic cooking etc. but he always tries to wriggle out of it. We bought a car a few years ago; he hasn't shown any interest in either understanding about driving or wanting to know how the engine works- his interest in cars is entirely about watching Top Gear. I think he would quite like to win X-factor, but he won't join a band...

It seems almost as if he would need to be abnormally gifted at something to find the confidence or the will to give it a try. I admit I struggle with the "I'm no good at this so I won't bother"-attitude.

I feel very bad about it, because I would so like to encourage him to do something-and I wouldn't much mind what it was as long as it was active. But anything I or dh suggest is just impossible. And he will not take any initiatives himself.

He used to be really keen on charity, but now he just sneers if we talk about doing something: "you are not Nelson Mandela? How do you think anything you do would make a difference?" (yes, I have told him that Nelson Mandela would not have got far without millions of supporters all over the world).

Starting a school magazine is difficult- he really struggles with writing and though the school are trying to teach him touch typing (and we are making him practise at home), his progress is really slow.

I have twins with different academic ability.

One is above average but nothing out of the ordinary iykwim, the other is well above average and always gets better scores at school.

However, the less able twin ( these things being relative) has bags of confidence because she is very sporty and creative. That twin is also a born performer.

Of the two, I have no doubt wich one will rule the world.

I have two very different. DS1 went to university (a good one and a science degree)and DS left school at 16yrs and did an apprenticeship. It has never caused a problem, I am as proud of DS2 getting his C in GCSE English as DS1 getting an A.
They each have their own qualities-I can only see it being a problem if you think that academic achievements are the be all and end all in life or you compare or you are disappointed.
I never had expectations before they were born, I just respond to the DC that I have, if you have decided that your DC must pass the 11+ and go to university, then you will have a problem if they want to leave school and be a hairdresser.

Cory, it is so unusual for a boy not to want to know how things work. How old is your ds? Is it possible that his condition has caused depression? Has he always been dispondent or is it because of his condition?

I used to work with a boy of seven, who was struggling academically,his parents were concerned with his lack of progress and he wouldn't join in with other children. His mother was keen that he should be happy, whilst his father was a high achiever and wanted to see results. He was a very serious child and talking to him on a 1-1 was like speaking to an adult. He had been very seriously ill almost all of his life. Over time it became obvious that he was very bright but he was scared of failure. He was a perfectionist and would not try anything new just in case he failed. It seems unlikely that your ds would be daft,with you, DH and your ds, could he be afraid of failure?

He is 10. Yes, I think he could well be depressed. And definitely scared of failure.

He is quite sociable and fond of other children; comes across as a slightly childish 10yo, not at all a miniature adult.

But is very negative towards anything that requires skill and this is becoming more and more noticeable, to the point where he goes out of his way to tell us that "I don't want to learn to swim because I think boats are silly" (we spend the summer on an island) or "I don't want to learn to cook, because I think it's stupid of you, everybody else eats pizza or fish and chips"- even when nobody has actually been asking him to learn.

Academically, he is about average or slightly below average (second set from the bottom/middle set at school). He frequently points out that he is dim or "not clever", and gets angry when we contradict him.

The lack of technology could be genetic: very little talent or interest in technology either on my side of the family or from dh. And ds himself never showed any interest in or talent for technology even before his disability started and he got all negative. He is as I said very clumsy and finds it difficult to understand how things work or how to do things with his hands. (I am the same tbh, but compensate with academic ability).

His dad is more the knitting and baking type, but would be very happy to encourage an interest in technology if ds showed one.

I do think he has some talent for drama and art (he is a good mimic and very funny), but he absolutely refuses to have anything to do with either- there is a very good drama school locally, which he will not set foot in.

Yes ... Ds1 passed 11+ and is very bright. Ds2 is dx ADHD and will probably struggle forever

Need to join in here because I have a v similar situation going on, akin to Spanieleyes, Cory and others. My boys are twins aged 9. It is REALLY hard at present to continue to build the self-confidence of DT1 when he is less and less interested in things his twin is successful at - and doesn't try as hard and enjoys watching TV, going on his PC and being physically active, although not shining at any sports really and not into football.

DT2 is more and more achieving academically, v focused with great concentration and all his teachers have told me, since he started school, that he's a pleasure to teach. He writes newspapers and books and stories for pleasure. He reads all the time, lots of adult stuff and classics and always seems to say exactly the right thing to his teachers and other adults.

However, he's got Asperger's traits and apart from 3 friends similar to himself, finds it v hard to make new friends, ostracises his peers by being 'odd' and I'm worried how he'll cope outside the school system at Uni and beyond.

So right now, DT1 is the 'problem', says he hates reading, writing, school etc etc - although he's probably the brighter one of the two, potentially, so it's v frustrating, says he's stupid and the thick one of the twins and he's NOT. Yet, ina few more yrs, I'm pretty sure that he'll be the one to 'fit' much more easily into 'normal life' whilst DT2 won't.

Spanieleyes, can you share anymore of how you manage/ managed the situation with one DC with Asps and the other more able socially but less academic. Did your two compare themselves to each other, as mine do? Did your more academically able one put down his sib. (as DT2 does) only to find himself feeling inferior once he was making the transition out of school and into Uni and the big world?

Basically, I find that no matter how much I try to build the confidence of both my DCs they still compare themselves with each other and DT1 puts himself down. I've been a solo mum from the start and I'm much more like DT2 (though without Asps traits - but a bit eccentric!), reading copiously, did well educationally and was beloved by the teachers at school. I'm not so similar to DT1 and this can sometimes then be hard for me not to silently compare them and wish DT1, with the 'whatever'/ can't be bothered/ I'm stupid/ I hate reading attitude' could be more like me/ his twin and then of course I hate myself for this.

I wonder if it's harder with this difference between sibs when they are twins or whether it's just as hard with different aged sibs?

I had a very academic big brother. I struggled at school and was diagnosed with dyslexia in my late teens. My mum tried not to compare us but her anxiety was obvious to me. I spent my early teens feeling stupid.

I wsa always very social and I was good at that. My brother was always shy. Now he is a lawyer. We have a great relationship and I'm very proud of him. I am a teacher, got my degree and am very proud of myself!

I have a really happy life and feel very lucky. Will try desperately not to worry if my DDs have different academic abilities. DD2 only just turned 2 so not sure yet.

I wouldn't hesitate to get home tuition for a particular subject for one or other of girls to boost their confidence if I could afford it.

comforting to hear there are other people in the same boat

I don't know how much the age gap affects things: there are 3.5 years between dd and ds and she never deliberately puts him down or points out the difference, she is far too mature and kind - but everything she is just makes it so obvious

he is clearly very sensitive: I can't sit down in another room for a quiet discussion with dd about her GCSE options without him barging in and trying to shout me down (because apparently it is wrong of me to assume that she will want to do all these difficult subjects and go to university- but she does want to go to university and she does want my advice)

dd tries to encourage him and get him feel good about himself, but it doesn't seem to be making any difference

Something miraculous happened today. DS2 who is struggling with maths and 4 years younger said to DS1 over dinner ?well you just see how you cope when your maths gets harder. I am doing fine with the easy stuff now, you will be struggling soon? I thought it was great because DS 5yrs old has the insight to realise that he will always be working below his brother, but individual progress is what is really important.

Corry the more you say about you ds the brighter he seems. Are you sure that his attitude to learning isn?t tied in with him just rebelling against what he perceives as demands from adults. He seems to have an almost teenage cynicism. In school my bright ds gave up wanting to conform and perform. He questioned the authority of the teachers and their knowledge in his areas of interest. He is also a very cynical child for 9 years. I was sullen, argumentative, confrontational, questioning and only motivated when something interested me. In fact I think my parents probably wanted to leave home. I was also very cynical and could see faults where most people couldn?t. I was tested as a lazy, unmotivated underachiever to be brighter than your average bear.
Have you thought to have him assessed by an ep, you might be surprised. Girls often achieve more because of personality, rather than just intellect.

I sometimes worry that the differences now might be magnified as adults. I worry that DS1 will buy a sports car with his bonuses and DS2 will struggle to buy a bike with his first wage. I wonder if it drives a wedge between siblings when they grow up. I am an only child so have no exp to go on.

minimaths, I see what you mean and it is a very common MN response to assume that if a child who seems bored or cynical it must be because he is brighter than his peers

but I have lived with ds for 10 years and I have never seen any evidence that he does actually grasp things quicker than his mates; to the contrary, his inferiority complex is very much based on the fact that he can see that his friends on the whole do everything quicker and easier than he does

he certainly questions everything we say, but he doesn't really seem able to out-argue us (which dd was able to do from a very young age)

for many years he said resignedly "I am not very clever"; now that has turned to "people who try to be clever are stupid"

in actual fact, I don't think he is as stupid as all that, but academic things certainly do not come easily to him, nor does reasoning

his teachers don't see him as lazy and unmotivated, more as someone who needs extra help- and has done since reception; not SN but lower sets, extra time to explain things

he himself is not particularly hostile to school or the classroom situation- as I said, he is quite sociable and likes being around people- it's just that he feels at a disadvantage when it comes to learning things

one thing he is really good at is drama; he is very funny and a great mimic; unfortunately, big sister is very into drama, so he refuses to have anything to do with it (besides, it's part of the posh family culture that he dislikes)

cory - could he be mildly dyspraxic? Just wondering whether, if he is and was identified as such, this would affect the way in which his school, you and he approached his difficulties? I'm aware it might not make any difference at all and therefore not be worth even bothering to consider (except maybe giving him something else to hang his difficulties off rather than letting him get away with believing he is stupid). It's just that, whilst hypermobility alone can cause symptoms very similar to the physical symptoms of dyspraxia, it is quite common for hypermobility to be found alongside dyspraxia, and the way you describe your ds's thinking makes him sound a little bit dyspraxic (eg possible issues with perception, processing speeds and memory).

Sorry, probably not very helpful.

yes, rabbitstew, it is helpful and yes, I think you are probably right

in fact we are mildly dyspraxic in my family- I certainly am- but the rest of us tend to get away with it by bigging up our strengths iyswim

unfortunately, the strengths ds does have are things he doesn't rate very highly

assuming that he is dyspraxic, what can we do to help him?

I'm really not sure, tbh. It might or might not be helpful to get a better idea of what his actual cognitive strengths and weaknesses are, eg by seeing an educational (or clinical, as there is an issue with attitude within and outside of school) psychologist. Or you could seek general advice from an organisation like the Dyspraxia Foundation, or read books on the subject to get ideas. I guess you need to decide whether you actually want him to be diagnosed with dyspraxia or not; whether you think the emotional and physical effects of his issues are sufficient to seek an official diagnosis, or whether you just want a few helpful pointers from people who might understand why your ds is behaving and thinking the way he is.

Certainly keep encouraging him in the areas where he appears to have definite strengths - that he is funny, good at acting, etc, and that other children would love to have skills like that, but it just doesn't come easily to everyone - he needs to believe it isn't just a consolation prize! He really does need to find something he feels he can do well enough already that it is worth working at, as this will hopefully improve his attitude towards effort in general, but then that's obviously what you are already trying to do for him. Maybe someone outside his rather academic family would do a better job of convincing him of that!

So, no easy answers, in other words, although your ds's transition to secondary school may be the spur for whatever decision you make, as it is bound to have a significant effect in one direction or another in terms of his views on life!!!!!

Thanks a lot, rabbitstew- and sorry to everybody else for thread hijack-

I suppose a few useful hints might be better than a full blown diagnosis: he took his physical diagnosis (hypermobility syndrome) really badly and hates having to admit that he is different from the others. He is also really uncomfortable about the fact that his sister has been seeing CAHMS (for depression); he hates the thought of his family being different and affecting his street cred- I know it's the age, but it does make life harder.

It is so hard to encourage him in his strengths, because the moment I say he is good at something, he won't have anything to do with it. He's given up drawing, because I said... Which is why I daren't make too much of the acting, not that he is doing any of that atm (his sister is, which is enough to put him off), but I don't want to close that door forever....

He seems obsessed with how different and embarrassing we are- everything from my dress sense (admittedly non-existent- but in a quiet way) to my age (I am not an older mum as it so happens, I was 32 when I had my first and 36 when I had him- but apparently this makes me really sad, as all his mates have young pretty, modern mums).