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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

How much is a good school all about the Head?

31 replies

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 18:36

Went to see a school today that has a new head. Everything about it was very impressive except the Head who was a bit of a bullshitter and a little arrogant.

The school and reputation is based on the efforts of the previous head.

How likely is this to be a good/bad choice of school?

Our ds has SN so it is quite important that we get the provision right, although the SENCO was excellent.

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kittywise · 20/10/2010 18:39

imo it is all about the head in the end. No matter how good the staff are if the head is crap they will either give up or leave.
Trouble is you can't tell when a new head starts, it takes at least a year for things to settle.

InThisSequinBraYesYouOlaJordan · 20/10/2010 18:42

IMHO it is ALL about the Head. I speak as a teacher and a parent. I have worked in a school who had a terrible head - within weeks of her leaving and a new Head starting, the change in the atmosphere was palpable.

If staff are unhappy, poorly or erratically led or bullied, this will have an inevitably effect on the children.

Ragwort · 20/10/2010 18:44

Totally agree with these comments - it is all about the Head.

cybbo · 20/10/2010 18:45

I disagree. I think a school is as good as its teachers. Good staff can rise above poor management and get enough saitisfaction form the job of teaching.

ChileanMinerWife · 20/10/2010 18:45

i think TOTALLY about the head tbh

reup · 20/10/2010 18:46

I think a good head is v important but sometimes it still doesn't help if the teachers are poor. Everyone raves about my childs head but but it hasn't stopped him not being read with for all of key stage one despite my complaints

Original poster

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 18:46

Oh . So how do I find out the teachers opinions of the Head?

I mean I know that I didn't like her that much, and I thought she was a bit OTT with the platitudes and I caught her out saying that she is flexible, meets the needs of the individual children, but can't accomodate certain things, when the SENCo contradicted her by accident at a later meeting saying they already do accomodate those things iyswim.

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bigTillyMint · 20/10/2010 18:47

I agree, particularly at Primary School, the Head is really important as per above.

If your gut reaction is that she was arrogant and b**r, then she probably is. And if she's recently in post (less than 2yrs), then you can't judge by results.

IndigoBell · 20/10/2010 18:48

100% about the head because the head hires all the rest of the staff. If the new head is bad the current good staff will leave.

cybbo · 20/10/2010 18:48

Heads are always full of flannel at open days. Can you chat to any parents of children currently in the school? They would give you a more realistic version of what their child has experenced

Original poster

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 18:48

Yes, less than a year.

But, me not liking her doesn't mean she isn't a good head though does it?

Grrrrr. The school is superb currently.

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reup · 20/10/2010 18:50

Indigobell. They don't hire all the staff from scratch! Sometimes they are stuck with the ones they have.

cybbo · 20/10/2010 18:52

I think good staff will function well despite a poor head . The current employment market means teachers can't just afford to jump ship becasue they dont rate the Head. And decisions have to be run past Governors etc so nothing too horrendous can occur

ChileanMinerWife · 20/10/2010 18:53

no i think they are utterly demoralised. lack planing vision organisation and start to feel undervalued
underperform
spec mes

rabbitstew · 20/10/2010 19:05

I think it is mostly about the Head... You only have to look at the schools which have an interim headteacher for a while to see that - until a permanent head is found, the school always seems to lose its way a bit. And an individual teacher, after all, may be very good, but for good overall provision within a school, you need good communication between all the teachers and the Head. You really don't want your child to be starting from scratch each year with a new teacher who knows virtually nothing about him or what he's already learnt, after all.

Original poster

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 19:06

Oh what a shame. How do I find out what the staff think though? I don't really live in the area of the school yet so don't know any parents/contacts to ask.

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Sobha · 20/10/2010 19:08

all about the head - it sets the attitude of the school, whether staff feel valued - agree best people to talk to are existing parents.

Original poster

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 19:10

How do I do that? Hang around the school gates at drop off time and see if I can grab a few?

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anonymousbrainsnatcher · 20/10/2010 19:18

The head is key, though there is more to it than just the head. Our head is super. Always been a good school, so she started with a base of very good teachers, which helps! But last five years she has turned into a truly excellent (all round) school. She really "leads" and drives initiatives through with such gusto and enthusiasm that it reaches all levels and is quite infectious. The teachers respond, the children respond. And the parents for that matter.

An utterly impressive woman who commands universal respect. I would be absolutely devastated if she decided to leave.

Sobha · 20/10/2010 19:21

Could you ask the school to put you in touch with some parents if there are no formal opportunities to meet parents. i know in the summer often school fairs are open to wider public - not sure if the same for christmas fairs. if so, could you go along, have a look and sneakily get chatting to a few parents and say you popped in as you were considering this school.

Original poster

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 19:24

Oh good idea about the christmas fair. I'll look into that. Thanks.

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reup · 20/10/2010 19:42

The thing is it's hard to get a balanced opinion. Thera are actually a thread on here about how amazing my childs school is and I can't agree with any of it.

My partner teaches in an "outstanding school" where parents lie to get into and make the houses one side of a road worth £50,000 more because they are in catchment. The head has been asked to turn around schools in the lea and they love her and she has done lots of really good stuff in the school. but she is hated by most parents and staff. The longest serving member of staff outside one senior manager has only been there 7 years and almost one third of the staff leave eAch yr. She is a very nasty bully and staff are regularly in tears.

Original poster

StarkAndWitchesWillFindYou · 20/10/2010 19:56

oh reup that sounds a lot like this school. It isn't the same one is it?

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swill72 · 20/10/2010 20:01

starkandwitches - the staff won't give their honest opinion to a potential parent if they don't like the head. Imagine the professional repercussions if it got back to the head that they'd been bad-mouthing her! However, I should say that I would have gushed about the brilliance of my old head and how she made the school what it was - all the staff were very vocal supporters! I would give 'bland' comments about our new head. That would be the sort of thing to look out for, in my opinion.
Totally agree with InThisSequinBra, also as teacher and parent.

MmeMorph · 20/10/2010 20:01

Almost all about the head. Am in the process of watching a school being turned round at the moment by a good head.

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