Using calculators - Yr4

[MommyG]

Does anybody else think using calculators is not a good idea at this age? DS has been telling me that they use calculators in school, and even in this week's Math homework, it was written that they could use them to solve the word problems given. I think they should either prepare kids for these kind of numbers first and then make them solve questions involving them, or give them simpler numbers to work with.
Worse part was that most numbers didnt even need calcualtors - he could easily do it mental, but since he was 'allowed' to use calculators, he didnt want to try without one. I was quite surprised really, and am not happy with it..

We're currently having a panic with my Year 10 daughter, GCSE Module 1 coming up, who it turns out can't actually multiply 4.5 x 3.6 by hand (she lined the decimal points up as in addition, and therefore got 162.0 rather than the correct 16). Her claim is that she hasn't had to do this by hand since primary school, as since then she's been using a calculator. That's compounded by the fact that her primary teachers appeared not to understand the "new" methods they were teaching, so she got a vague rag-bag of methods none of which quite work. It's going to make for a hectic half-term.

So you're right: it's not a good idea. There's a claim, which is entirely spurious, that someone it makes maths accessible to people who can't add, subtract, multiply and divide. The claim's spurious because without basic number skills, the rest of the claimed learning is going precisely nowhere.

somehow, not someone.

I'm pretty at Y4 being allowed to use calculators. Ds1 is in Y5 and last night had to slog through a bunch of those word problems, but they were really good as it made him think and made him use his arithmetic in a pratical way.

As a further argument - my dh works in retail as a merchandiser. He sets a maths test for anyone coming for interview and says he simply cannot hire someone who cannot do basic maths in their head - yes, of course they use calculators and spreadsheets but solid basic skills have to be there so that mistakes can be spotted, percentages worked out correctly and so on. He says it's awful how many bright kids he sees who are terrified of maths, never really got confident with arithmetic, and so he can't hire them for what could be the start of a really interesting career.

Having that at the moment with my Yr 5 DS. Struggled with maths in the past and last year we got him some extra tuition.

This year he has ended up in the higher ability group for maths and this weekend's home work was working out the area of various shapes. He assumed he would use a calculator as did DH on the basis that the teacher wanted to know that he understood how to work out the area. I insisted it was done without using a calculator and cue finding out that he had no clue how to do long multiplication and long division. Emailed teacher. He chatted with DS and I discover that they could use calculators!!

I assume that as when I went to school calculators were not invented so I am a bit of a dinosaur!!! I firmly believe that if they don't have the basics then they will struggle further on.

So I think I will insist on some basics being done at home.

There seems to be a reluctance to get children to learn their times tables now too which I fail to understand so i have just agreed to pay DS for every table he learns off by heart! He'll thank me when he is older!

Although having said that DH (accountant and maths degree) says he never learned his and just works it out.

I do feel that you should be able to work long multiplication and division out on paper. When you know HOW to do that then it is fine to use a calculator.

I agree about not disallowing calculators but I think there may be too much reliance on them too early. Much easier for a lazy 9 year old boy to use a calculator to multiply 7 x 6 instead of thinking about it!

Euphemia, DS's homework this week involved adding decimal numbers. The numbers weren't actually big, they were things like 3.98 + 7.20, 10.02 - 7.87 etc.

Ofcourse, I did not let him use his calculator, but since it was allowed in school and even explicitely written in his homework, he just wanted to take the easy way out.Even in school I'm sure that though he knows to do the sums, he obviously doesnt want to be finishing his work after everyone else, and ends up using the calc.

This is definitely basic's isnt it.. in his earlier school they actually encouraged to do all this mental.

exactly BudaisintheZONE, thats my point too..

I wasn't deliberately going against the teacher's instructions. I had no clue that they would be allowed to use calculators as I thought that the working out bit was as important as the method.

Do you know what the objectove of the homework/classwork was?

Was the objective to add decimal numbers together? Or was the objective to learn how to use given features of the calculator?

Children are taught how to use calculators in primary schools and they do have a place.

I wouldn't be happy if children were using calculators all the time, but if the section of work being covered was to learn how to use a calculator than it's fine IMO.

Explaining WHAT???

Y4 weren't previously allowed to use calculators - till the latest in the line of "new" frameworks came in and moved it down a year. I taught Y4 at the time and was NOT a happy bunny at this one!

Ah. HTU. Hundreds, tens and units! I get it now!

Dim emoticon needed.

In KS2 SATs there are 3 maths papers; one is mental maths, one paper where a calculator is NOT allowed and one paper where a calculator IS allowed, so perhaps they are making sure your child is familiar with calculators in good preparation for the SATS?

Being familiar with and being able to use a calculator is a requirement of the numeracy framework. As mentioned there is a calculator paper in SATs in Y6. Many schools also use optional test papers each year as part if their assessment process, these also include calculator work.

"Being familiar with and being able to use a calculator is a requirement of the numeracy framework."

Mine's an RPN calculator (2 enter 3 +, rather than 2+3=). It keeps the children on their toes when they borrow it.