Do you think the UK should change the age at which children begin school

[Anenome]

It's something I have often thought about...most other countries begin at 6 having first attended kindergarten. Reception here begins at 4 which is so young...should the UK look at things differently? I know I would have been happy for DD to wait a year or two before full time school began. Maybe it could be left to the parent to decide? So instead of the law stating that a child MUST be in education at age 5, it could be that they can be....or they can choose to wait until 6 years old.

Interested to hear what others think?

I did also work for a Scandinavian company for 6 years and I wasn't that impressed by the outcomes of their education system.

I've an October daughter who would have benefited from starting school earlier (a personality that needs pushing to take on challenges, she would have come up to higher expectations), and a July son who has had a wonderful 1st year at school and is going to start treading on his big sister's toes soon enough if she isn't careful.

I agree that more flexibility is the thing that is needed. But that also requires a willingness to sometimes hold a child back a year after they start school, which doesn't seem to happen in the UK much as far as I can tell (I did my schooling in Australia).

For me this isn't so much about when they start school but what they do. My attitude is and always has been that if the government are making the children start school they should be doing school stuff with them. I believe my child plays and learns better with me at a young age, I do not believe in reception and EYFS at all. IMO our schools are doing too much stuff that should be done at home and not enough school stuff. The problem is by making them start earlier there is a higher chance that children can't do the basic things such as putting shoes on, coats etc also you are forced to ensure your child can do this rather than letting them go at their own pace.

I do agree with other posters however that this is a red herring. In other countries the children are not starting at 6/7 with no skills they are doing this stuff in nursery before they go.

That said if I had to put an age forward I would say that children shouldn't start until they are 6. However pre-schools/nurseries should be able to cater for the, lets face it, easy learning stuff up to this stage. The problem the government has is that they know if they move the age higher there will be an even larger gap between the children who are being helped/supported/developed at home and those who aren't.

In Germany children start at 6, but they definitely don't do reading/writing/maths at Kindergarten, in fact parents are actively discouraged to teach any of those things to the children before they start school. Once they do start school, they only have lessons till midday - my nephew who is six has just started school in Germany and he finishes at 11.30!

They do have a lot more homework, though, emkana.

I understand that some children aren't developmentally ready for it - but what about the ones that are?

My DS2 would have gone stir crazy if he couldn't have started school until he was 6

DS1 on the other hand could probably have waited until he was 6 as he didn't really click with antyhing until half way through year 1.

DS3 - well I don't know - he's a "young" one for his year, and just started nursery. BUT I have seem him come on in leaps and bounds since he started and he only had his first full week last week!

True!

I think there should be free nursery care 9-3 from the age of 4, with children starting "school" when they turn 5.

None of my 3 were ready for school until their 5th birthday, but to get them into school they had to start in the Sept before their 5th birthday. I would have dearly loved for them to have a bit more time at nursery.

emanka - i can strongly agree with your post - it is totally frowned upon for children to learn any formal things before they go to school in germany so kindergarten is definitely for playing.

Lynettescavo - they do have more homework but it is no more than an hour a day at primary school and in the first class they are broken in to homework very gently!

MaMoTTat - think you've hit the nail on the head in what you've described - there has to be more flexibility in the UK like there is in other countries to accomodate the ones who are and the ones who arent developmentally ready for school.

I think choice for summer borns is key!

I have a late July birthday (US-ian) and my parents could choose to enter me as the youngest or the oldest - I went in as one of the youngest and had twins in my class who were a full year older than me.

Also, the schools can hold children back a year so the least able can catch up.

My cousins live in the USA and their kids are 6 and have only started going half days.

DD (4) has also started, and is totally exhausted just going from 08:45 - 13:30. She came home yesterday and cried, 'I am so tired....'

She is ready emotionally and is very bright, but I worry that she isn't ready physically. Fortunately the school is flexible within reason

I don't actually agree though that parents are necessarily the ones in a position to decide whether their children are ready or not. My very good friend here refused to send her son to nursery (because he "wasn't ready") He started school at 6, like the others, but because he hadn't been to nursery, and learned, if nothing else, the socialisation skills (which I think are fundamentally and very importantly different to any socialisation that a child can be presented with in the presence of a parent, who is always going to have that one child as a priority) he "wasn't ready" for that either.

I don't even know how to explain what I mean I just think, especially in Britain, there seems to be this whole "I'm his Mum! Of course I know best!" thing going on when it might not always be the case....If I think about myself, had anyone asked me before dd started school here, at 6, whether that was the best age, I think I would have been of th "Gah! She was ready 2 yrs ago!" thinking. But she wouldn't have been, because I was thinking in terms of what they do in British schools, all the play stuff in reception/yr 1.

The school day is another red herring. Dd is home for 1.15, but has only a 10 minute break between 8.10 and 1.10. So when you add in the breaks and lunchtime in the UK, it all evens out (again)

Ds would have been murdered or in care if he hadnt have started school at 5. And i am being very serious.
He is a very self driven individual who craves information and learning. He taught himself to write and was reading before he went to school. I spent my whole time giving him information in other ways so that he got his stimulus that he needed (pead confirmed it was needed) and it being age appropriate.
He would have been academically ready to go to school a year earlier and although he wasnt socially ready i think he would have benefited from being at school for that too.
Incidentally he is now in year one and working to year 2 standards. he is frustrated because the teachers aren't teaching them fast enough.

According to contacts in scandinavia, he would be being failed by the system over there due to the way they teach.

What I like about the english system is that in a lot of schools they are taught at their pace, and that gives the child who are struggling chance to learn. even if teacher sometimes have to scratch their heads and replan their teaching plan for the year in the 3rd week of reception when they discover they have a core group of high fliers and a core group of not quite ready for school. Interestingly enough this is not age dependant. Some in this group in sept last year where virtually 5 when they started.

It all depends on the child. And some of the things the education system does work. Its a shame that it varies so much from school to school and area to area. Question: do other countries have such a wide range of results/achievements between schools and areas?

The Swiss system is, IMO, one the best.

4 - 6 yo, mainly play based learning, in the same building as the older children. They do not have such a culture shock when they move on to Year 1 as eg. German children who are cosseted by 3 years of Kindergarten and find the transition very hard. Suddenly they have to think for themselves, work independently.

School day is 8am to 11:30am. Afternoon not compulsory for 1e and 2e (4-6yo) but available from 1:30pm to 4pm. Wednesday free, which gives them a good break midweek. (Massive PITA for working mums though).

In Germany the children have to go to a school doctor who advises if the child is mature enough for school. Particluarly by the "kann-Kinder" - the children whose birthday fall around the September deadline - it gives a fair idea of if the child will cope.

I would like the English system to be changed to have some flexibility about age of intake, also to a more play-based curriculum until the end of Yr2. And ideally, half-days until the end of reception.

I feel that all of my children (girl and boys, autumn and summer birthdays, mature and very immature, shy and outgoing) would have done well on that regime.

As things stand my immature summerborn child hates school with fury; he can do the work set, but the formal sit-down style is wrong for him and makes him hate school.

My DD started Nursery a few days after turning 4 (September baby). I thought she would struggle had never been left with anyone else, always with me. To my surprise she was fine and I found it was me weaning her in gently, she was fine to stay all day but I still collected her at lunch.
My DS started at 3y3mths (June baby) he was very traumatised by it, as was I, took him nearly all year to settle in, then we had the same trouble at the beginning of reception. He has just started Yr1 had a few shaky days at first but seems to be settled and enjoying it now.
So it really does depend on the child, personally I'd love to keep them home with me till they're 18.

Bucharest...of course parents know what is best for their DC's...I do...your friends son had issues but that doesn't mean his Mother did not know best.

ModdyM yes...traumatised is the word! My DD was too...I knew she was not ready but had no choice....she had to go.

Quite common in Sweden that children start school at 6 not knowing how to read or write. Otoh they are likely to know how to prepare their own lunch, use a hammer and saw, bake a cake...

Never heard a parent there complaining that children will get bored if they do not do do enough reading and writing: there are so many interesting things for them to be doing.

I'd agree with you, Bruffin, about outcomes of Scandinavian education, but most people I know there (teachers, former teachers, parents) agree that this is nothing to do with the early years approach (which has changed relatively little since the days when Sweden led the world in the education tables) but with the disastrous changes in secondary education- yes, the famous Free Schools that our own government is so keen to introduce here. That ime is the bit that has gone downhill.

What's EYFS?

The law states that a child must receive a full time and effecient education from the term after which they turn five. Please correct me if I am wrong, not really with it today!

There is no law that states that education must be in school. You are within your rights to keep your child at home for as long as you like. You could home ed for a few years.

Other: EYFS = Early Years foundation stage. It's a 0-5yrs compulsory play based curriculum that all childminders, nurseries, preschools and reception year follow.

One the reasons we have decided to home educate ds (3.5) for now is that while he is "sooo ready" to learn, he isn't yet able to cope with being in preschool full time, and I seriously doubt he'll be ready for full time school next september. He simply finds it too stressful and tiring to be in that environment around that many children for any length of time, and would never last 6 hours at school. I'm quite happy to keep him home and HE until such a time as we all feel school would be the right place for him. Right now, school would be a very wrong place for him.

The review of EYFS ended on the 30th Sept so awaiting news of it's future

Ds2 aged 5 is in school, whilst Ds1 9 is at home. I sent Ds2 to school because he loves to be around children his own age and loves the social aspect of it. However I am not sure he is coping as well with the academic side of things, he is very young in that respect and although he is learning to read and write it isn't without a struggle. His social skills are brilliant for age, in retrospect it would not have harmed him to be Home ed.

I wonder some days if 5 is just too young for the long days and the goals just too high for the average boy. I know he will learn to read and write its just a shame it has to be right here, right now.

Yes here in Scotland DS won't start any kind of formal education until he's 5.2. He's attending nursery 5 mornings a week just now (would be in Reception in England) and seems to spend most of the time in child-led play. This has it's benefits - he's making friends, using his imagination and getting used to a school environment - but I wish he was learning something more formal.

There are such low expectations here. People seem consistently surprised that he knows all his colours , can count to 20, etc. He is ready to learn, so it's down to us to teach him letters, reading, telling the time, etc. Then we risk him being bored in the first few months of school, or worse confused.

With the new "curriculum" I have little confidence in the schooling he'll eventually receive when he is allowed to start. On the Continent I'm sure they learn the basics very quickly once they begin. I doubt that would be the case here if formal schooling were delayed even further.

Gaelicsheep, I think you make a very valid point when you say

On the Continent I'm sure they learn the basics very quickly once they begin. I doubt that would be the case here if formal schooling were delayed even further.

The length of the school day and age children start in the uk and the years spent in education from 4-16years, might correlate with how efficient and effective that education is.