Please help with my hitting/kicking 6yo: at wits end (LONG)

[WilfShelf]

Am at wits' end. Another heartsink moment at the end of the week. 4 weeks into y1 and he has been in to see the head again.

3 weeks ago (after 1 week of the year) he was hitting other children. So we spoke with the teachers and they suggested a behaviour chart, with smiley faces for each of 7 periods in the day, if he got 5 a day all week, he would get a reward. He HAS managed 5 most days (and 6 or 7 on some!) but the incidents where he has lost it have been serious, including today, kicking another boy in the groin, and two other incidents (one hitting, one punching)...

We have been doing everything we can to support the teachers and get on top of it. The behaviour chart comes home each day and we add a smiley face for the morning and evening if he's been behaving at home. Last week he was on course to get a reward but blew it at 3pm with a stupid incident which was not hitting related but did necessitate a trip to the head...

Today, he only got 4 smileys because of the incidents, yet got 7 yesterday, and got 5 or 6 out of 7 on previous days this week (the target he was set). I rang the teacher because I felt frustrated and worried that he isn't feeling himself making ANY progress in the last 2 weeks, even though he's been trying really hard. I feel they need to lower the bar a bit perhaps? I don't know... Maybe that would be sending the wrong message.

Today my DS told me that 2 out of the 3 incidents were under provocation - although I don't always believe what he tells me because he does sometime make stuff up, as 6yos do - but he seemed pretty sincere and serious about it. His version was that in the two kicking incidents, he was kicked first. He told the teacher this the first time, but says he wasn't listened to. If this was true, perhaps it isn't a surprise he didn't bother saying it the second time. Not that it makes it OK for him to kick as retaliation, my point is if it was true that he was provoked, perhaps the first time the teacher might have not given him a sad face on his chart, and perhaps the other incidents might not have happened. Unfortunately the first kicking incident was serious (in the groin of the other child), and he had to go to the head.

When I spoke to the teacher she hadn't seen it, but did say the reports of the two boys matched, so she had assumed my son was the main 'kicker'. I specifically asked if she or another member of staff had seen the incidents. The boys in the class are all pretty aggressive to each other, and though my son is the one using his fists/feet, the others are teasing him, calling him stupid and not letting him play. This is what he reports, although in reception, the teacher though he was quite happy.

We've been working hard at home too: he has an older and a younger brother and it is fair to say relations between the three of them are fairly stormy! Our rules are no hitting or hurting, and there is a consequence if they do it. We also try to encourage them NOT to retaliate, but to tell an adult. I have heard other parents say to their kids 'if someone hits you, hit them back'. I'm not quite sure how I'm able to stop my kid hitting in school with all the mixed messages he's getting. We are working also with our other two boys, especially the older one, who can be aggressive, competitive and frequently needs to 'win' even over his 5 year younger brother. And the youngest is 3 so pretty wild all on his own, so it is almost impossible to apply the same standards across the board, which my 6yo doesn't understand. But we've organised things - banned all computer screens except for homework between Monday-Friday, no TV in the mornings, clear rules about behaviour and respect for self and others, routines for getting ready etc. And beyond the basic expectations,, I'd like to think we give them freedom and choice and independence, but to be honest, I have no idea what it is that we're doing that is worsening the situation; and no idea beyond what we do already how I can influence what goes on at school.

We had a second phone call from the teacher later this afternoon after I rang her. She thinks it best we go in for a review with the teachers and head, and she has discussed it with the SENCO [argh! I am not sure what special educational needs he could have: does an uncontrollable temper fit some pattern?]

Can anyone help, especially primary teachers or parents with similar experiences? Or psychologists? Shrinks? Magicians? Prison governors?

Oh god, another awful day. The notifications have extended from hitting etc - which have been pretty bad today, to 'general low level poor behaviour, talking etc...'
But I thought we were working on the violence!?

I'm really torn between having to be the only person who believes my 6yo when he says he keeps getting hit and kicked first, and other kids are telling on him, whereas he doesn't tell on them...

..and thinking he's uncontrollable.

The review meeting is on Thursday. I really, really don't know what to say to them. We are doing everything we can. What else can we do?

Wilf

Has he had a hearing test recently?

Also, what's his perception of personal space like?

Other children's personal space, I mean

Hi BALDY,

No, he hasn't had a hearing test for a while - do you think this could be an issue? He doesn't have a partic good sense of physical boundaries with us, and with his brothers - climbs all over everyone etc, but I haven't really observed this in any detail - just assumed all little boys are like this!

Wot are you thinking, mate? You can PM me now with the new mailbox - go on: I need to know all the options...

PS he has had longstanding chronic but mild health stuff going on most of his little life.

Only recently has he grown out of permanent coughing and infections etc which was assumed to be asthma (but I was never convinced). Lots of other investigations for infections etc.

He had a dreadful dose of chicken pox as a 2.5 yo which I am convinced left him reeling for months - he never seemed completely well after that, and still is a bit prone to colds, sore throats. Could this be relevant?

My 6yo son is on the same target chart at school. This was precipitated by him getting suspended after kicking several members of staff. I don't perceive that he has particularly lashed out at other children on a consistent basis, but another parent reacted hysterically to him the other day -- I assume he has a reputation :(. I am terrified of taking him to something like Beavers, I am sure he'll kick off badly and make his reputation much worse :(.

It's all a nasty minefield so I sympathise with your experience, OP.

I am reading The Explosive Child and finding it useful & reassuring. I am surprised how much I like it.

I am pretty sure that fish oils are helping DS to sleep better, btw, not helping with general behaviour that I can tell, but going to bed has improved hugely. DS is drinking 2 sips daily of this one.

ragged

and yy sleep and behaviour are VERY closely linked IMO

Wilf have PMed you x

My 7 yr old ds has had some similar experiences. Some things which have helped are:

1. Reward chart. However requiring 100% for a reward may be self defeating - if something happens on day 1 or 2, there is no incentive to behave for the rest of the week as the reward has been lost already. Also it should be a complete secret and only ds and the teacher should know about it. Where possible it should be couched in positive terms ie things that it is good to do rather than bad things not to do.

1. There should be no public demonisation of your son. Many class rooms have behaviour charts on the wall and children are moved on to black clouds or red lights for bad behaviour. They should really consider how appropriate this is when pervasive behaviours are involved that are being worked on.

1. It is highly likely that your ds is not always the aggressor but is simply perceived as such. You need to put his view of events to the school each time. Ds has been badly hurt by other children but none has ever actually been hurt by him. School are very aware now that other children try to provoke ds and that it is not always his fault.

1. Give him strategies to deal with situations that he would usually deal with aggressively. Teach him verbal responses to use in different situations and rehearse them so that he does not have to think about them. If he has ways to channel his feelings and his frustrations which do not involve hitting people, he will hopefully use them.

1. Provide a safe place at home. Whatever happens during the day at school, although you might talk about it at home, is something to be dealt with at school. This is not always something we did with ds, but if your son is having nightmares, it sounds like he needs it. Ds did go though periods of crying himself to sleep and I used to tell him stories with him in it which were versions of what had gone wrong in the day and in which his special super-hero character (an octopus who lives up his nose) managed to put right. Hopefully it let him put the day in perspective.

1. Put things into perspective yourself. He is only 6 and being a not a-typical 6 year old boy with a few issues. It is not the end of the world.

yy to role play

I had forgotten we used that when DS1 was being bullied a few years ago

and yy to martial arts - they are very very big on self-control

and dare I say, is he getting enough daily exercise; I know I go on about it but mine are VILE without their daily run

have you a trampoline in the garden - BRILLIANT for bouncing off excess energy (egg timer needed for parity in turn taking, mine are DEMONS for 'he had longer than me' -stylee wailings)

Thanks again all, those are helpful posts!

Goosey, I really think you've hit nail on head there: I DO think he is being perpetually provoked and is then unable to control himself. DH reminded be about being in nursery with same group of boys: when they all left (to move to the School nursery in School they're all now at), similar problems with DS2 getting in trouble STOPPED instantly. I shall mention this to teachers. Funnily enough, they started again when they joined back up in reception.

They do the 'cloud' thing. It is couched as 'how children are feeling at the moment' but I really don't think it is perceived that way. I think I said earlier, other kids are already mentioning my son being on it all the time. I DON'T like it, but it is so widespread isn't it, I don't know how much we will be able to influence that...

Once again today, on talking to DS, there is more to the stories. He tells of being kicked also, and being chased by a boy who was trying to take his ball away, he asked him to stop, he wouldn't. I need to find a way of showing him other ways to behave in such provoking situations but I think he has possible lost faith in himself to be able to respond differently now, and lost trust in the staff to resolve conflicts for the group...

Please don't think I'm trying to make out my son is a maligned little angel: I'm not: he can be a complete bugger! But the point is I really really doubt he is either the cause of all the worst conflict in the classroom. What can a parent do in such a situation? I am getting increasingly exasperated and sad about all this...

See now BALD, this weekend was SHITE - like a bloody monsoon all weekend so no trampolining. On sunday they all had a massive balloon mayhem moment in the living room just to burn off some energy, but no, nowhere near the normal level of running about he needs. I did think at bedtime last night - tomorrow's not going to go well.

yep

with winter coming you could think about where you might go with inclement weather - swimming (ghastly but does the job, I farking hate it lol), or indoor wall climbing (spenny but often here you get 2 4 1 vouchers in the local rag) that kind of thing

get some up your sleeve in readiness

KBO [churchill-stylee]

Re the Cloud thing - I raised it with the school that putting the same child there over and over again for the same behaviour was clearly not improving the behaviour of the child and demonising that child.

They now no longer do it in reception and do not use it in other classes for behaviours which are being worked on with the child in different ways. They are the work of the devil IMO.

I do really get the constant provocation and it drove me nuts. Its not that ds is an angel but sometimes he is not the horror that other parents may perceive - infact their little darlings are!

Goosey, how did you actually raise the questions with teacher? I am v nervous about seeming to undermine them and making things worse....

Get waterproofs and get out as much as possible.
DD just started school and is bonkers some days when she gets out. I realised that these days coincided with rainy days where they didn't get outside to run around.
Will improve the sleeping too.

I explained that the other parents and children were starting to see ds as a problem child and that this was leading to his social exclusion which in turn was exacerbating the other problems. As part of dealing with that, could they stop labelling him as a problem in front of everyone. I fully accepted that his behaviour needed to be dealt with and supported the school's right to impose whatever sactions they considered appropriate. However, given we had identified a particular problem, could we find constructive ways of dealing with it which did not involve basically saying in front of all of the children "X has been naughty again".

The school also acknowledged that infact ds has been systematically bullied by a section of his class for some considerable time. The head instigated regular meetings with all of the boys in his class to try and eliminate this and improve relations between them - the group dynamic was not working at all. The boys and parents had no idea that this was being done because of ds and all of the boys got to chat freely about how they got on together and what problems they had. Don't know whether this would help, but if you can work with the school, there are all kinds of solutions that can be found.

Key thing is not to criticise the teachers but to go in and say you want to work with them - generally they are trying. I also put all of my concerns in writing to the head and asked for a meeting to go through them.

In the ideal world, they learn to withstand a fair bit of provocation; because it's going to be everywhere and spontaneous all their lives. They need to learn to deal with it appropriately -- tell the teacher, and learn standard retorts (like "Stop it!" "Back off!" "Don't do that!") rather than lashing out.

I know it's hard, 2 of my DC aren't brilliant at it. DS kicks off when his tablemate leans over his work and comments "That's rubbish, you're doing it all wrong, look at Tim and Amy, their work is good."

DS has to learn to deal with that without kicking things, even I don't expect another 6yo to keep opinions to themselves.

Yes - we've been working on appropriate responses and not being narked by others.

Today I've tried to encourage him to let the teachers be in charge, so if something's bothering him, not to try and sort it out himself; and to walk to the corner of the room and shout a stupid word clenching his fists instead of lashing out.

We've also got a secret word that will remind him of having a cuddle with me or his Dad for when he's feeling low.

I'm hoping this will help. We'll see... The Greenspan book has just arrived so will start to read that after work...

Am holding my breath...

Decided to take things at home into my own hands, and I made a secret deal with DS, that hopefully doesn't undermine what is happening at school and gets him back on track.

I said if he got 5/7 smiley faces today and tomorrow, I would take him swimming after school as a treat (we don't DO swimming very often...)

He really responded to having something we could work on, and I think the extra help with how to deal with conflict and provocation helped a bit. So of course he managed today! His teacher noted a couple of incidents but was full of praise according to DH, which is BRILLIANT all round. And we're all a bit on eggshells now hoping we can keep it up tomorrow!

I just wanted some 'staging posts' on the way to his Friday target - and so the teachers could see he CAN do it before our meeting on Thursday.

And I have also bribed persuaded DS1 that if he helps DS2 meet his mini-target, he can choose a reward too, since the relationship between them is crucial for DS2. He just wants his big brother to notice him, not beat him at everything and talk to him nicely. DS1 being 11, finds this pretty hard. So I'm trying to link the rewards - do you think this is a good idea or a bad precedent?

Keep your fingers crossed for him...

No I think it is good. You want your DS1 to be nice and sympathetic to his brother, praise should be enough but he's 11 so that ain't gonna cut it :) reward the good, maybe they'll feel like a team?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

DS2 managed to get his 5 smileys yesterday and 6 today. So he got to go swimming and is immensely chuffed with himself, and I am really proud of him. The secret plan worked so far, but also the teachers continue to be brilliant in thinking up strategies to help him: they've appointed him two playground 'bodyguards' (!) who are y5 boys who had similar issues in Reception /Y1, and who are there to help him sort out any issues. The teachers noticed most of these incidents now are happening in the playground at lunchtime, and DS is reluctant to tell staff what is happening, even when he's being harrassed. So these Big Boys are there to be someone he can tell he's getting frustrated and they can hopefully advise him how to sort out any problems.

So far, so good. I'm REALLY hoping he can make it to the end of the week and have some kind of recognition from the school now...

I am facing a similar situation, you almost described my little boy's behavious literally. I know there is nothing fundamentally wrong with him as he is part of a loving nurturing home. Both his father, his grandparents and I are fully behind him and he knows and it shows, as he is very confident. He is only 5 years old but it is expected from him to behave like a mature grown up, and he is finding it really hard. We have been given this behaviour chart last week and I find myself crying every day when I get his report. To be honest, I am so stressed when I go to pick him up from school that I want to cry. At the beginning I was very strict with him, I made him write several lines that this and that behaviour is wrong, etc, and he had no screen time at all or no favourite games. But it is not helping, the reports are the same every week. He is a little boy full of energy, is the first to wake up in the morning and struggles to go to bed, usually at 9 after a lot of threats. At around 5 in the morning he comes to our bedroom and says that he is afraid of the dark... I don't know how to help him, my main fear is that he is going to be 'labelled' as a troublemaker and this will hunt him in his school years. He is very bright and academically is doing very well. I am considering taking my son out of school, and we'll probably consider independent education for a while, as they have a smaller number of children per class room.... may be it will help? It will be costly and we are not rich, but my son is worth the economic effort and extra work... any other mum had tried similar or different? I would love to know... thanks