Anyone remember my *residential* *trip* saga last year?

[luciemule]

Hi - for anyone who remembers my residential trip saga from last year/early this year (and there lots of you).....well, it's the meeting tonight for this year's trip.

This year, after not going to the yr 3 one, DD is now in YR 4 and is quite keen to go, although she knows that if me and DH aren't happy with the sleeping set up, we'll take her away for the w/e instead.

So I spoke to her lovely (male) teacher this morning, telling him I can't make the meeting tonight and he was lovely. He knows why she didn't go last year (not sole use in a youth hostel and rooms for hire to public mixed with the kids rooms).

He said it was fine for me to miss meeting and that if I wanted to arrange a meeting with him and other yr 4 teacher, that would be fine. He said that the YR 4 trip is again to a YH but this time, they have the whole bottom floor and half of the top floor with another school (secondary yr10) staying in other half of top floor. I asked if their area was locked at the main exit and he said no, it wouldn't be as it's a YH and there could be others staying in the YH but he didn't know as yet if the set would be the same.

I don't know what to think but I'm peeed off that another school in the same country wouldn't even consider taking their primary kids on a res trip that wasn't only their sole use and yet, this one seems fine with them going to an open YH in the middle of a city! What would you do?

I agree with OP and have made the same decision regarding my DS.

People say there is more risk driving and crossing the road, but when you do these things you take precautions, cross at crosssings, wear seat belts and drive to speed limits.

So why not take the same care and find a venue you can have sole use of.

Mrs Morgan - the school are being very blunt about their intentions to go no matter what.

even though I spoke to the outdoor trips advisor at the county, he called the head, she told him what he wanted to hear, then it went ahead regardless and he said he was happy with the school doing their own risk assessment. I guess he signed off the initial one (not that I'd seen it).

Yes, £175 for 2 nights is ridiculous but we would have paid if sleeping arrangements were okay.

annapolly - agree that things like crossing the road etc, you have control over.
On trips, the teachers have to act 'in loco parentis' as parents and there is no way we, as parents, would allow our kids to sleep in a set up like this.

Agony - they aren't allowed to lock the doors due to fire risk as mentioned in my first post.

annapolly - I wonder if it's the same school???

FWIW, I think you are completely overreacting.

I do not see the problem with the school's arrangements.

I am not sure that some of the posters on this thread understand quite what was proposed for last years school trip.

That 8 year old children would be sleeping in rooms without a teacher present, and without being able to lock the door, in a youth hostel that was also open to the public.

OP: yanbu.

Dd1 went on her Yr 4 residential in the spring and stayed in a YH.

The Yh was shut to other people, and a member of staff was based in each area. The children slept 4 to a room, with unlocked doors.

Allowing other people to have rooms whilst the children's aren't locked, and with no staff in their rooms, is like letting yoyr children sleep in an unlocked hotel room, with no adult.

YANBU.

I am a teacher and would never book (or be allowed to book) a trip with sleeping arrangements like those suggested.

I am usually quite quick to say when I think parents are overreacting and I can always see the school's POV, but I actually don't think you are being at all unreasonable.

I wouldn't feel at all comfortable as a teacher in that situation - wouldn't be alble to sleep! and certainly wouldn't feel comfortable as a parent.FWIW I think you've made the right decision.

thanks mumtoa

There were quite a few teachers who commented on the last thread who also said the same thing.

I've been thinking about this again. Actually, it's quite staggering that the school (and other schools too, by the sounds of it) can sanction this. It must surely break every safeguarding rule in the book?

Our school has just spent thousands of pounds erectng additional fencing and gates, all of which have to be shut at all times, just in case (partly) that some random paedophile runs in off the street and grabs a child. Had we not done this (and these are fences and gates inside the grounds, along with more alarmed entry systems inside the building between, say, the foyer and the hall), we would have been failed by OfSTED as not meeting current safeguarding requirements.

So how the hell can any school say that it is acceptable to allow children to sleep in bedrooms in a building open to the general public, where anyone (without CRB checks, for what they are worth) could gain access to those bedrooms at night.

I am the last parent to be precious about my kids but, bearing in mind all the lengths public bodies are made to go to these days, YANBU to query this. And if "lots of other schools are doing it" then, frankly, they shouldn't be. And if it means someone in the school has to get out of their comfort zone and go and research a new trip, then so be it. If they've "been running it for years" then it might be about time for a change anyway.

clam - that's what I don't understand. When I was researching last year's trip, I spoke to Ofsted (who didn't want to know), the manager at the YH (he was actually the most helpful), the outdoor trips manager (who was won over by the head when she fluttered her eyelashes etc) and I still don't understand why the governors would sign off the trip.

There seems to be this 'our town is so lovely and the people in it are so lovely and we're all living in cuckoo land- ethos) and I reckon the school, staff and parents have lulled themselves into thinking that because it's lovely school, then whatever they do, must be correct and lovely too!

Why on earth, as you say, couldn't they change their plans research a new trip? Because it's the head's way or no way - that's why!

lenin - you're right and that's why we've decided not to send dd but me being who I am, wants to work out if this is actually acceptable and because the school have been sp very arsey about it all for 2 years in a row, would actually quite like to report them to Ofsted. Think Ofsted last year said that because it was a voluntary trip then they coyuldn't do anything about it. Will perhaps call them again later.

Well usually I'm with seeker and prettybird on the safety thing.

But tbh I wouldn't be happy about that.

No way would I trust a large group of 8/9yr olds not to venture out in the middle of the night if the doors are unlocked

I think it's unbelievable that the school is taking this risk! Also, do the other parents not realise? If you've been told not to talk to the other parents, then I guess they don't - I'd be contacting every parent in the class and explaining why my DC isn't going. It would be then up to them to make their decision, but if enough refused, then the trip would be cancelled/better security arrangements made.

just found this

This place seems perfect and is in the same city. Can be sole-use too and would be with the number if DD's year going.

Why on earth didn't they bother looking elsewhere......because they don't care enough!

I would contact OfSTED again, actually. Safeguarding is a real buzzword at the moment - maybe it wasn't last time you spoke. Or perhaps you just spoke to the wrong person.
And I would blow this right out into the open with other parents too. Then see how much of a problem it becomes. They've probably got you pegged as a bother anyway, so what have you got to lose?
I am wincing just thinking about the reaction from our school's parents if we were to suggest such a setup on a trip. And that's a leafy "nice" area too.

Our school does the same regarding letting another school book the same YH accommodation and while I am very nervous about it I did let my dd go last year as dd was desparate and older dd missed out and felt it because of all the stuff that went on about - it up to a year later! I felt in the end I had to place trust in the staff. In the end younger dd had such a great time wanted to do it all over again but has to wait another year and is waiting with great anticipation. I still feel the same but it's something I have to cope with.

well - I called Ofsted again and she said that unless it's something that has already happened regarding safeguarding, then it was the DCSF who deal with edu trips.

Had a little look on their website and it still looks as though they have only published guidelines about trips; not anything set in stone.

So, I might scatter a few words here and there in the playground over the coming weeks . Whether or not dd goes now, I'm fuming that the school withold info on purpose.

Wonder how you can get hold of OfSTED's own checklist of criteria wrt to safeguarding then in schools then? I understand they crawl all over the place looking for glitches.

How do you mean Clam - when they're inspecting schools and safeguarding to do with that you mean?

Yes. We have to jump through hoops according to their set criteria. I'm not exactly sure what those hoops are, although our HT is gettng very twitchy - hence all the fencing etc...

maybe I should write to my MP.
It seems as though this loophole isn't considered within any department as it should be so perhaps a letter to an MP might do something.....or then again......maybe not. Oh well - will try and see what garble and blurb they come up with.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a group of young lads book into next room, come back drunk, walk into wrong room, try and get into a bunk etc.

Also where are the toilets? if dorm not en suite then you will have lots of 8 year olds trooping back and forth to the loos, maybe forgetting which room they are. You get the picture

Both very possible situations, yanbu.

I think there was someone on last years thread earlyriser who said that was exactly what happened to her and her mates when they were staying in a YH on holiday. Some drunk bloke turned up in their room drunk and started getting into bed with them.

Also, there sin't even one block/area. One area is an annexe in the car park. To get to it, the kids have to walk 100m through the car park to get to it - hmmmm, that sounds really safe.