Can anyone explain the 'non-faith pupils in faith schools' thing for me please?

[Rosebud05]

Am currently checking out local schools to apply for dd by January. There's a church school at the end of the road, which apparently is pastorally excellent as well as outstanding ofsted etc. I had initially ruled it (and the other 3 faith schools within 0.5 miles of us) out as we're atheists, but then thought maybe I should think it through.

Their criteria have 'any other applicants' at the end of criteria about attending that church, attending church in another parish etc. If the school is oversubscribed, is it true to say that there won't be any non-faith pupils?

TIA

My ds' school is a hugely oversubcribed catholic school and there are no non faith pupils. We have extra criteria needed in the application too, like diaries signed by the priest for mass attendance which goes towards a reference by the priest to support your application. Give the schools a ring and ask.

they basically work down the list of admissions criteria until they are full, so if there are more applications in the various "church" criteria than there are places there won't be any none faith pupils in that year (unless it is one of the faith schools that had x% of "community" places - usually based on distance from school, not church attendance)

However it could be oversubscribed but have taken some pupils in the "other applicants" criteria before all the places were filled IYKWIM.

It may be on the school/LA website or (I'm assuming it's a "voluntary aided" school - they do their own admissions) the school themselves should be able to tell you the lowest entry criteria & the distance from school the last pupil was admitted for the past few years, to give you an idea as to whether you stand a chance.

You do need to think seriously if you can support the ethos of the school though or whether the faith-side is going to drive you slowly mad day-in-day-out for the next 7 years

If this is your first be careful about how you determine the school is oversubscribed. Our LEA brochure gives the total number of last year's applicants for a school but doesn't tell you whether those were 1st, 2nd or 3rd choices. So there may be more applications than places, but in fact the children for many of those applications got higher choice schools.

I found that school secretaries were a useful source of information.

Some CofE schools have an allocation of 'open places' where you don't have to apply on religious grounds, just proximity to the school. But they would make that specific in their admissions criteria.

My DSs attend a CofE primary. They prioritise people who regularly attend church, but in practice there's no problem with atheists or those of other faiths getting in. So it would depend on whether your school is oversubscribed or not.
My kids attend because it is our nearest school. I have no problem with the religious aspects of the school. It means we attend church about three or four times a year. But at no time have I felt a religion is being forced on my children.

At our local C of E (voluntary aided) school, there is certainly potential under the admissions policy for no non-faith pupils (other than siblings or anyone getting in on special needs grounds) to get in. Whether this has ever actually happened I don't know, but there has certainly been at least one year when the school was oversubscribed, so it's more than just a theoretical possibility.

A school is oversubscribed if there are more applicants than there are places, regardless of which category those applicants fall into. If the school can fill all the places with children from higher categories than "any other applicants" they will do so. As Betsy says, the school or the LA should be able to tell you what has happened in previous years which will give you some idea of your chances.

I guess it depends where you are, as you say there are other schools within a half mile I would assume it is a city/town location and that seems to effect the criteria for example my dd goes to a CofE school that is rather outstanding and over subscribed however we are of no religion as a family but we live in a small village and the school is the village school, there is no real alternative for people like me who don't have access to a car, the school also serves other small villages in a couple of mile radius so they have a fixed catchment area and sensible admissions criteria of

1. looked after children
2. Statements naming the school
3. In catchment siblings
4. Catchment
5. Out of catchment siblings
6. Church attendance

I gather from the wisdom of MN that this is something that only seems to be in rural areas where the only real available school (without having to travel more then 6 miles) is a CofE school as it seems the vast majority (and all in our county that I have heard of) are CofE schools so parents really don't have alternatives.
The best place to start is the school its self and the admissions criteria as this varies a great deal school to school as I have tried to outline above. I wouldn't rule it out if it was a school you would be happy for your child to attend before checking as has been said some have community places available.

rather outstanding rated outstanding

Thanks - these replies are helpful. I called the LA last week, who told me to e-mail, though I've had no response. I'll try calling the school directly.

Betsy, yes, not wanting to have to engage with a religious ethos on a daily basis for years was my main reason for not considering the school, though I feel that I'm not doing the right thing by dd by not considering all of our options iyswim.

Yes, we live in London, hence the kids on our road go to at least 7 different (local, state) primary schools.

Rosebud, if you have more than one child, the other thing you really need to think about before sending your child to a church school is the degree of priority given to siblings. You can not assume that a younger sibling would automatically be given high priority for a place - it depends on the admissions criteria. At our local catholic primary there has been at least one year in the recent past when some younger siblings didn't get places. The school's admissions criteria prioritised catholic siblings living in the parish and then other catholics living within the parish. The full 30 places were taken up by applicants in those categories, so there were no places at all available to non-catholic siblings that year.