More than 30 children in reception class - is this legal?

[13lucky]

I believe there are 32 children in my dd's reception class - I seem to be the only parent to have realised this and I thought the limit was 30 children. 30 sounds way too many at the best of times let alone 32.

I don't want to get myself off on the wrong foot with the teacher (all the parents are scared stiff of her as it is) and so not sure what, if anything, to do about this?

Anyone any advice?

Many thanks.

Are you sure there are 32 in the class? What makes you think this? I think you need to be sure of this fact before asking any questions.

I'm pretty sure there's a limit of 30 to a class in the infants. I had to appeal to get me dd into her school (where her brother attends) and so they have make two smaller F2 classes to accommodate more children. Check with the Eductaion Dept at the Local Authority.

There should be no more than 30 children with a single qualified teacher in Reception, Y1 or Y2. However, if there are 32 children in the class it is likely that the additional 2 are "excepted children" and therefore don't count. If, for example, they were admitted as a result of successful appeals or because the LA made a mistake in the initial allocations they won't count until next year. There are a number of other reasons why a child may be excepted. I would therefore assume that the school is complying with infant class size regulations until proven otherwise.

There can be legitimate reasons for more than 30 children in an infant class.

If there is more than one qualified teacher then the class can have more than 30 (DS was in such a class last year).

If a child won a place on appeal then the class can be more than 30.

If a child moves near the end of the school year and the school has already planned to split the classes in September then there can be more than 30 children in the class (this also happened to DS, when we moved)

There are other reasons as well but they seem to have escaped me at the moment.

It does happen that there are classes with more than 30 children in - I read an article saying that quite a few children do end up in infant classes with more than 30 children in.

I was hoping someone like phd47bridge would come along

annh - when we went to a parent meeting in July and found out which class they were in, there was a list of children in my dd's class which I have a copy of. There are two children I know are definitely in her class now who aren't on the list and yet I think I can account of all the children on the list as well (there are 30 names on the list plus these extra two). I also had a quick count of the names on the pegs in the cloakroom this morning and sure enough there were 32 names there.

Sounds like there may have been two children admitted through appeal then.

Ok - so if they are 'exceptions', does that mean they still only need one qualified teacher?? That doesn't seem fair to me. While I appreciate all children need to be given a place, I don't particularly want my child to be in a class where the teacher is even more stretched than usual?

My DS's reception class went up to 31 last year when a new boy started. I think it was around Easter when he arrived.

phd47bridge knows more about this than I do, but as far as I know then if they are "exceptions" they do only need one qualified teacher. They are only allowed to be exceptions for this school year though - next year the school would need to organise something else.

This does assume they are exceptions though, which might not be the case.

Oh right, so after reception, they would have to have alternative arrangements in place, eg an additional teacher (or the hope that one child left?!)

As far as I know that is what has to happen. Also, if any children left now, they couldn't be "replaced" until there were fewer than 30 children in the class (so for any new ones to join there would have to be three leaving)

NoahAndTheWhale is right. If you have 30 children and 2 excepted children you only need one teacher. That's what being excepted means. As far as the regulations are concerned there are only really 30 children in the class. The other two don't count. However, in most cases the exception only lasts for one year, so next year the class should have only 30 children with a single teacher (unless, of course, more excepted children come along next year).

If you are worried about the number in Reception, wait until your child gets to Y3. There are then no limits on class size. When the limit on infant class sizes was introduced many schools could only meet it by reducing the number of classes in Y3 - Y6, resulting in larger classes for those years. Class sizes of 33+ are common.

This thread is moving faster than I can type! But again NoahAndTheWhale is right. If they are over the admission number (which they will be if they have a class of 32) any child who leaves will not be replaced. There are circumstances in which they may have to admit an additional child without anyone leaving but these would again be excepted children. If they are 2 over already, the school will be hoping for no more excepted children in the next 12 months!

And yes, next year they must have only 30 children in the class unless more excepted children arrive next September.

There were 31 children in my son's reception class last year (one joined during the year after he successfully appealed). This year, going into year one, the school has had to employ an extra teacher to meet the legislation. The benefits of this are supposed to be spread across the key stage so there is: one year 1 class, one year 1/2 class and one year 2 class.

Thanks for all the replies. prh47bridge - you say they must only have 30 children in the class next year - but how can they do that? What will happen to the other two? Or do you mean 30 children per teacher, ie they will need 2 teachers which, in fact, could be of benefit then?

My DD had 60 in her reception class but 3 teachers and 3 assistants. They were split into smaller groups within the same class. It was not as chaotic as I thought it would be.

FWIW my mother (recently retired infant teacher) reckons that children are far worse off being in a mixed age class - which is what often happens to keep the numbers right- than a slightly larger class. She reckons the former diverts far more attention and resources than the latter (although, obviously, you'd prefer neither!)

Yes, I mean 30 children per teacher. That would normally mean creation of an additional class. They could then run two small classes in Y1 and a normal size one in Y2 or go for the arrangement given by Fayrazzled. Either arrangement is acceptable. There is nothing in the regulations requiring the benefits of employing an extra teacher to be spread across the key stage.

If they can't arrange a classroom for an additional class it may mean having two qualified teachers in a single class.

The big problem for the school is that 2 additional children isn't enough to fund an additional teacher. They will therefore be hoping that some children will leave making that unnecessary. If that doesn't happen they may have to make cutbacks elsewhere to fund the extra teacher.

Thanks for all your help everyone. There is a second reception class too so I would be interested to know how many are in that class (if only 30, why have they put the two additional children in the one class). Many thanks everyone.

Our school has 'merged' some of the infant classes. We have Reception, Y1/Reception (oldest & youngest), Y1, Y1/Y2 (oldest & youngest), & Y2.

I think this works well as some of the reception kids are only a few weeks younger than the Y1 and so putting them together makes sense.

It also means that we only have 24 in the reception class, which with 2 classroom asssistants measn we have a ratio of 1/8.

prh47 - or presumably do the combined age group thing? My mum hated it. Felt it was a real own goal from the targets, and it ended up happening almost every year at her infant school as the numbers fluctuated and they couldn't fund more teachers...

Yes, combined age groups happen quite a lot. I'm afraid that government by targets often has in unintended consequences - more mixed age teaching and larger classes in Y3-Y6 in this case.

Sigh, sad thing is, it's an admirable aim: keep class sizes down. But anyone with half a brain and some time to look at the situation would have seen what would probably happen.

My lovely friend is a teacher, there's 34 in her class as there was a mass appeal! She teaches in a loopy area, she was told off by one parent when she got pregnant because it would disrupt their childs learning