Reception class - how does yours cope with tears?

[debs40]

Ok, I'm a bit upset and annoyed and looking for a bit of perspective.

I have a 4 year old who has just started school.

I also have a 7 year old so I'm not a PFB'er!

DS2 has done two weeks of half days and started full days for the first time this weel.

He has been very happy so far and seemed to be enjoying things.

Today, he went into class, did his jobs (putting water bottle and book bag away) kissed me, said goodbye and off I went.

I'd only got half way down the corridor when he ran out after me crying and saying he didn't want to go to school.

I picked him up, cuddled him and took him back to class.

The teacher and TA were in there. Both just stared at me and the teacher got on with settling everyone on the carpet.

I walked over to the TA with DS2 in my arms and sat down while he continued to cry. She made no effort to reassure him - she just said 'why's he crying, what's happened, he seemed fine before'.

In the end, I suggested I take him outside which I did and the TA followed. I tried to calm DS2 down and reassure him but I made it completely clear that i would have to go.

Another mum came past us and said 'it might be a case of drop and leave' so TA says 'oh yes' and tries to drag him off me. Cue more screaming.

So TA is standing there with no idea what to do. Teacher is in class. I'm sat with a screaming child. TA keeps saying 'I don't know why he's like this' so I end up saying 'he's 4 and just started school'. It's not rocket science!

I had to suggest I remove him to the reception area to calm him and bring him back. TA looks at me like I'm a loon. I tell her it will take as long as it takes but he will settle and I am not having him dragged off screaming.

It took me 2 minutes. He was just a bit overwhelemed at the thought of another day. I get him back to class, suggest a friend comes out of class to take him in and that was that.

All through this, the teacher did NOTHING. Zero. Not even a word of comfort.

The TA was clueless.

Their only startegy to physically drag him off.

Seriously, this is poor isn't it? He's a quiet gentle boy who just needed a bit of reassurance from an adult. It seemed like a bit of a missed opportunity to provide it. Instead the attitude was 'look away children' and ignoring him like it was bad behaviour.

Isn't this to be expected for 4 year olds and shouldn't they have some idea of how to cope?

Sounds woeful to me too. Am not surprised you're angry and upset. fwiw at our school the TA was always happy to take DS's hand every morning and give him a job to do as I quietly left. We agreed that with the teacher, who was hugely sympathetic and full of strategies to help. A couple of times I did have to go while he was wailing, but it was all about me going, so it was the only way. By that point though I knew he was with an adult he trusted and liked and that he could stay with her cuddling and gently settling him until he'd calmed down. The teacher and TA both made a big effort to reassure him and make him happy. I'd expect no less at four.

The teacher had the other 29 children to worry about.

Maybe the TA was slow to react because your DS had been coming into school with no problems & thought that something else was to blame for his upset.

My DS cried every day until Christmas, I am also a teacher. From my experience the "drop and run" approach is usually the best. The distress is usually down to anxiety over the separation of child and their parent/home, once the separation has happened, the child usually settles and is happy for the rest of the day.

But I have also used other strategies such as the child being dropped up just before the bell goes & being given a small job to do in the classroom, or being dropped off slightly later, straight to the care of me or my TA. I also often ask for another child to "look after" the distressed child, Que virtually all the girls in the class clucking around like mother hens lol! All depends on the child though.

If I had a child that got unusually upset or very distressed I would take over and ask the TA to take the class. Sometimes I would also phone the parent at break time to let them know that their child was now fine.

As a parent however - I probably made things worse. I used to say "Mummy has to go soon" etc which drew attention to the seperation & made DS seperation anxiety worse. For my ds "drop & run" was the best approach, just took me a while to realise as a parent I needed to follow what I advised my own "parents" to do lol!

The excitement of starting school has probably worn off for your DS and the reality has hit him that this is a long term thing. This is probably what has caused the turn-around in his behaviour.

separation not seperation

oh bless I had the same thing happen ystd, was awful as dd wasn't screaming but just fighting back the tears and holding onto me. I felt awful and left her with the ta who seems nice but I cried all the way to work and then rang the school to check she was okay!!! She was fine
I've also found though that dd who has always been a good sleeper has suddenly become really clingy at bedtime and last night she woke up and climbed in next to me which she hasn't ever done before unless shes' been unwell!!! Just think 4 is so young xxx

Soccerwidow thanks for your post. It is useful to see it from both sides.

I completely understand, having spent 3 years with nursery drop offs, that sometimes drop and go is best but this has to be dependent on there being someone to drop him with! Surely?

The TAs answer, and I know she was trying to help but was unsure and needed guidance, was to physically pull him and I can't see that is ever acceptable to be frank, even though I have seen it done many times in school.

Once you've started physically manhandling a child, where do you stop if they don't calm down?

I think a word from the teacher would have made the difference - yes they have other children to worry about but none of the others were screaming.

I did drop today - but he ran after me (out of class as well and no one appeared to notice that!)

Go meet the Teacher, Deb. Sounds far from acceptable to me. Least they can do is to designate someone to take his hand. I know DS found it far easier once we'd put that in place.

DD did something similar last week. She'd been going into school quite happily but on this day, just as I said goodbye she grabbed me and burst into tears. The class nursery nurse came over and chatted to her, tried to calm her down and distract her with other things ("special" stickers and being "special" helper with the art corner) but to no avail. She asked me if there was any particular upset (there wasn't).

In the end she asked me if I was happy just to hand DD over to her. I said I was and she told DD that she would count to 3 and then mummy would say goodbye and go. She counted to three, I disentangled DD's hands and gave them to the NN and then ran (well walked quickly). I could hear DD's screams coming after me.

I rang in later and the NN had passed on a message to the school secretary to tell me that DD was absolutely fine and had settled quickly. At pick up time the NN told me that she'd sat with DD on her own for about 5 minutes and they'd had a good chat, so she felt that DD would "trust" her in the future.
DD also later confided that she'd got upset because her best friend wasn't there (due to the part time group system they were working). So the staff had talked to her about how she would cope if her best friend wasn't there on another day and she'd thought of what she would do.

The whole affair was upsetting but I really got the impression that the staff's main concern was settling DD and making her feel comfortable.

Sorry for the essay - I am normally a drop and runner but that's hard to do if your child physically wraps themselves round you!

Thanks Smee - I will have a chat.

Redsky thanks for that too.

I have a 7 year old who has Asperger's and he needs a lot of support and attention in the mornings and yet DS2 just gets dropped off and left to it. I do wonder whether he is noticing this and whether the stress of a bad-tempered Aspie brother in the morning is affecting him.

I know, as a mum who's already started a child at school once that DS2 isn't get anywhere near the amount of attention/encouragement that DS1 got in the morning.

I need to work on that and I need to tell them that too.

Sounds like they thought something had actually kicked it off today to be honest (if he's been fine before).

I know what the TA was trying to do - generally it's easiest to take a child by the hand and just start walking slowly to something distracting (while winking at mum so she gets the idea of what's going on) - so a "Oh so what are we going to play with today - let's go see what X is doing in the sand," but it doesn't sound like it was very well executed if that's the case!

As a teacher - she might well have been hanging back so the child wasn't crowded with adults because you don't want to start reinforcing it with lots and lots of attention because then it becomes a daily thing.

When it very much becomes a case of needing to peel a child off from mum I tend to let the mum take the lead about how they want to approach it in that case (I tend to suggest they do the peeling and DO run - and give the school a ring up in 30 minutes to check all's well - but obviously you can't go yanking a kid away yourself) - but generally, taking by the hand, wave to mum, ok now you come and help me do X, Y or Z tends to work - if you can add in making yourself look like a right daft nowt to get a laugh and a giggle as well - all the better.

One thing I'll say is - however crud it looks at the time (and it's actually pretty daunting having to deal with it the first few times - in case the TA's new to Reception) - I've never known the tears last more than about 10 minutes unless there's more to it going on (bad night, slightly poorly, something's kicked off at home).

With one little girl we had a couple of Y6 girls who were her "special friends" who'd walk into classroom with her after meeting her on the playground (basically they took the shortcut into school through our classroom door in essence!) - it just worked in her case (it was a school where we had LEA buses to run the children in so very very few direct parent-teacher handovers), because she felt important having this girls looking out for her, and they were lovely girls anyway who were always desperate to do special jobs and she was a fantastic little lady that they all liked anyway.

dd1 was/is exactly the same - after holidays or illness, she can still burst into tears and run back out of the classroom after me and she has just started Y2.

FWIW, I would trust your instincts, Debs - you know your ds best. You know when he needs a little time/reassurance, or when he's trying to manipulate the situation and get you to stay unnecessarily. The teacher and TA haven't had time to get to know him yet, and FWIW I don't believe 'drop and go' is always the best. Sometimes yes, but sometimes definitely not - and dragging a child off you, never.

I can tell, if I trust myself, when dd is genuinely scared and upset and in need of a special task, an extra hug etc. If she sounds more angry/petulant than upset, I get firm and give her a hug, an 'I love you, have a great day' and go.

In our school, the recpeption parents are not allowed into the classroom - handover to TA in playground, children given sticker in classroom for being brave etc.

However, in your position, I actually would just leave your DS2 and let them deal with the tears - they can't really do it whilst you're there, especially with a lot of other kids in the class.

I'm not being harsh, just trying to be realistic - my PFB has just started reception as well.

It's tricky isnt it. I think there are three options
a) leave in playground and don't go in and fuss with gear
b) the teacher was waiting for your call ( and remember they do need to look at ALL the kids not just one) I think I have taken to teacher and saying " please take X"
c) be firm and say "sorry no I am going"

trainsandplanes - he isn't a PFB!! I have an older boy.

I think the problem was that he was clinging to me so he would have had to be physically dragged from me so it was easier for me to try and calm him than have that happen.

And I did calm in. In a couple of minutes when left alone. He knows the score. I have a 7 year old with Asperger's. I have firm boundaries and don't get manipulated where I can help it!

I think he was just overwhelmed with school suddenly being all day and I hadn't had much time for him this morning as Aspie big boy was having a morning stress out.

I went in at lunchtime because I had said he could come home but I wanted to make sure he was ok not to make things worse. He was fine. I asked to speak to the teacher. She was a bit off-hand and defensive (I'm afraid when you've got a child with SEN as DS1 has you have to ruffle feathers on your way through school to ensure their needs are met) as I've probably been flagged up as an interferring parent.

I told her that mornings can be stressful for DS2 and we agreed he could come in a little earlier - I do that with DS1 already.

It was uncomfortable though as, although I haven't bothered her for the first three weeks of term about anything, she clearly had that look of 'her she goes, this will be trouble' on her face.

I was so pleased until today that DS2 had settled so well after all the heartache I've had with DS1 since he started school.

I meant come home for lunch.

I think some teachers are more relaxed (experienced??) than others...am sorry you got the defensive reaction, hopefully as she gets to know you and her class, that will change.

FWIW, you sound like a lovely mum and I'm sure, as a result, your ds2 will settle in just fine. Actually, it sounds a though he pretty much already has - he's just having feelings occasionally about the changes, which is a healthy, normal sign.

DD is more difficult some mornings that others.

Normally she is happy and rushes in but there have been 3 mornings when she wasn't. On each occasion its been dealt with by distraction. For example the TA came out and said "mini dilemma I was hoping you'd come and help me use the photocopier I need someone to press the buttons". DD brightened up and was gone in a shot. Then yesterday the teacher came up to her and said "I'm just going to weigh out the ingredients of the cakes we're making today can you help me please mini dilemma". Again she was gone holding her teachers hand with barely a backward glance.

Sadly your DS's TA sounds like she has a lot to learn about 4 year olds. Luckily you sound like a great mum

I had to post again as, today, a little boy in the other reception class - which is a small split Y1/YR class - was screaming going in. He's usually a happy chap so it was very odd.

Dad was taking him in. I know his mum and she is usually with him. Today, he was clinging to the post by the door crying 'please don't send me in there'. Dad didn't know what to do and a friend came over to help.

Anyway, as I took DS2 into the class next door,d you could still hear the child screaming and sobbing.

I looked through the glass partition between the class and the boy is screaming, lying on the floor while TA and teacher are standing with their backs to him talking to the class, ignoring him. It's only a small class as well. All the children are looking at him and teacher tells them not to.

As I left, another mum said 'ah, and it's his brithday today as well'.

I'm sorry, but on a basic human decency level, bearing in mind of course how very busy teachers are etc etc, don't you think that's just a bit crap?

Why not just take the child out of the class for a minute? There were two of them. I'm sure he'll stop eventually - you can't cry forever - but that's not the point is it? It's hardly good for him and it certainly doesn't look good to other children or parents.

I've just been made a Governor of this place. Maybe I should diplomatically feed some of this experience back?

I think it's totally crap! I think you should bring it up...they're tiny little children who need to feel safe....and being ignored while you are so unhappy is not nice. If it were m child I would freak.

I know how his mother would feel as I know how I would feel if it were my child.

But why do this? The school is 'outstanding' according to Ofsted and is outwardly commited to SEAL (social and emotional aspects of learning), yet, having been thre for three years, I can see that they think that any sign of children not being entirely independent by the age of about 5 is really not their business a problem caused by their parents.

There never seems to be any way or plan for managing these things and it is only when DS1 got his Asperger's dx that they acknowledged that he might need extra support on an emotional level.

It is bizarre. So many parents are disgruntled about things like this and it is done so openly that the school obviously have some kind of policy which they're not communicating.