would you put your child into a school that had OFSTED 'Notice to improve' (and was actually 'improving')?

[tiredemma]

Im having a never ending nightmare with my house-move. In july when our offer on house was accepted, the very nearest school to our new home (which is a brilliant school apparently) had a yr 3 and a y5 place available. Excellent I thought at the time.
Education authority advised me that I couldnt actually apply for the places until I had exchanged contracts on the new house (which the tosspot estate agent had led us to believe would all be 'quick' and 'rapid' -

Anyway- still have not exchanged contracts to date- this is due to happen tomorrow- so I ring the education auth today to see if the spaces are still available. Of course they have gone.

Im gutted- the two other local (and very good schools) are also full. The only other local school that has (unsurprisingly) spaces is a school given 'notice to improve' by ofsted in july 2009.

I have just read its most recent inspection report (july 2010) which indicates that it is improving quite significantly and is expected to continue improving.

Im in a quandry- do I stick it out on a waiting list till the 'ideal' school comes avialable (if ever???) or go with the 'improving ' one (and the one that people in the area implored me not to send my kids there!!

Ds2 is 'below average'- I have a horrible feeling that im setting him up massively to fail in education if I put him into what the locals have called a 'crap school'....but Ofsted have seen significant improvements (outstanding in some areas apparently)

any advice???

I would only trust to the locals if they actually have children currently in the school. It can take many decades for a school to live down a reputation, but not to improve out of all recognition.

depends if the head could convince me that a) there were some extenuating circumstances that led to the shitey OFSTED report and
b) the head could convince me, with good evidence, that the right changes were being made.

I am considering a similar school for my DD, and have made an appointment to have a really good look around and a proper chat with the head.

Incidentally, my mate teaches at a school that got a pasting by ofsted about 4 years ago, and is now rated as "good, with outstanding features", and has an ever shrinking catchment.

I have heard that it is better to go into a school that has been "failing", than to go into another school. If they are in special measures they will all be working really hard to turn it around and will be pulling out all the stops!!

Only experience I have is of DCs attending a very high achieving school which turned out to be a nightmare and another local school that had been in special measures and nearly closed down had really happy children, parents and staff. If I had another child I would have sent them to the school that had everyone working hard together and improving.

Meant to add... Could you find out if the head has changed since the bad OFSTED?

To me that would be the key!!!

I would say visit the school, talk to the Head, talk to whichever teachers you can, and see what you think.
If a school has been so bad in the past that it is under notice to improve, there is much money available for that improvement. There is usually a new HT or leadership team who are very capable of managing the improvement as well as motivating a staff that may have been thoroughly desolate under a previous regime.
The school has been given the chance at a proper new beginning - see whether the people in school think that its 'rebirth' is really going to happen - then decide if it is the place for your DC

If they're improving... yes. In fact I know of at least one school locally that hit special measures and I'd still put a child of mine in.

Depends what it failed on as well - a friend's school hit notice to improve because of paperwork issues the previous head hadn't kept on top of, that she was in the process of getting sorted out - but they arrived second week in September... bam they got notice to improve straight off. This is someone I know is a fantastic fastidious head - just terrible timing of her taking over, and lax paperwork from the predecessor. Next inspection - it will have shown a dramatic improvement and I reckon, having worked under her management before, will be well back in the Good level (assuming they don't move the goalposts yet again).

Yes, basically - provided I had visited and met the head and relevant class teachers and was reasonably happy; plus I would also volunteer to read with the Year 1s/help with Year 3 art sessions for a term - I would take some leave hours from work to do this if necessary - plus I would ask to join the governing body - as a clerk if there are no governor places available. I would just aim to be there as much as possible and to know as much as possible about what was going on.

You did ask

kneejerk reaction was no but thinking about it:

• yes if head has changed (and would maybe look at ofsted of where they'd come from)
• yes in a case like emptyshell describes

thank you
thank you
thank you.

All valuable information.

I think I need to go and have a look around the school and see the head teacher.

have just re-read the most recent inspection report and it is actually very very positive and it really indicates that they are doing all that they can to improve. it is rated now at 3 (satifactory)- it was at '4' (inadequate' last year).

I wish I could keep them in their current school but logistically it would be a nightmare

meant to say sorry you are in this situation, shit that you have no choice!

Personally I'd go and visit and see how you feel about it then.

Dd1 has just started nursery. We had a plce at the school with the Outstanding OFSTED report and ended up turning it down in favour of our nearest school (Good rating with some satisfactory marks) after visiting both. It was interesting to see the difference in interactions with the 2. Clearly the first was happy to rest on it's laurels of having a Outstanding and it was obvious they wanted to keep it. The nearest school actually interacted with the kids and made it clear they do what's best for the child regardless of whether it scores them highly with Ofsted.

Yes - definitely would
A notice to improve can be the result of a slight dip in KS2 Ofsted results. If Ofsted didn't consider the school management already had effective plans to improve the school would be in special measures.

oh sorry i didnt know the two were different

These scary OFSTEDs can come out of knowhere. In my locale, one of the two schools that EVERYONE wanted to go to had a notice to improve slapped on it.

Everyone recoiled in horror! How could that be?

But if you read the report, it makes sense:

OFSTED found two salient things -

able children leaving KS1 with good levels were not achieving their potential, by and large, by the end of KS2.

the quality of teaching was variable, from outstanding to unsatisfactory.

That was enough.

It's worth noting that a reputation means diddly squat, actually. What's happening in the school right now is all that matters - and parents don't/ can't actually know what that is. It may be that a good or better reputation conceals shortcomings for a long while until a NTI, or worse, is put in place.

I have v little faith in OFSTED reports & have been in many 'failing' schools I would be happy to send my child & outstanding ones that I wouldn't.

One recent report I read said that the children were happy & achieving which surely are the priority yet OFSTED classed them as failing (wasn't the automatic safeguarding fail either)

Also schools with NTI or SM get extra funding and support to improve so there are lots of benefits.

I would go and look round the schools and also talk to parents with kids actually there and see if I was reassured.

Our village school got a notice to improve, its since had another Ofsted and is now satisfactory. Its still crap, all the parents say that nothing has changed, everyone is still as unhappy.

A local nursery has an outstanding report but I would not leave my dog there.
OFSTED are currently failing or giving schools notice to improve over ridiculous things such as the height of the fence etc
Go into the school and make your own judgement is always the best thing to do.

dd's school has a notice to improve. It was OFSTED very good (or whatever it's called - the next to top) a few years ago.
It is a very small village school, only 4 classes, had 1 crap teacher who has now been got rid of and one year of unusually bad SATS but it is such a small school so you would expect a lot of statistical fluctuation based on just one or two kids.
There are other issues but we will see how they turn out....
However the reception teacher is wonderful and the education dd had for her first year reflected that; the stuff which caused the notice to improve won't have affected her.

so I would say do as much research as poss, try and talk to lots of parents, read the OFSTED report carefully and see what the issues were.

My DS1 school was given notice to improve just after we received our allocation for it. I was mortified!!

Transpires there were a few issues:

old head was retiring and let things slide. New head came in and shook things up and so staff left.

They moved location of the school so the catchment area changed and the attainment of the pupils dropped.

ds1 is now in yr3 and I have been absolutely delighted with the school. I am so so glad he has gone there. I just hope I can get ds2 in next year as it is now very popular.

Go with your gut...you will know when you get there and have a look around.

I almost put my DD into a school which was actually under special measures..she was only in year one so I felt there would be time for improvement...area was lovely...kids nice....so I was open minded.

I went for a visit prepared to be very happy with all the effort that OFSTED had reported as going on....and was just totally underwhelmed...it stank! Literlly...he school smelled badly, the headteacher did not even show me around but her secretary shoved me up te corridor a bit and pointed at the door of the class my DD would be in...never took me IN the room!

I asked why the special measures had been implemented and they said it was due to the ex head not securing the building properly

it just felt wrong....but if I had felt ok bout it and the staff were nicer...I would have had NO problems sending my DD there...I had thought to get her a tutor if I felt it was neeed..you could do the same....I also feel that the local community is mor important than anything....

My children are in a school that got a notice to improve last Autumn and they are doing very well. The school is lovely and all the children there seem very happy.
It's very similar to what Emptyshell said, a new head started last September and the previous head had not kept on top of the paperwork, the new head was getting this sorted but ofsted arrived a few weeks into the term and the school went into notice to improve because of the paperwork. The new head is amazing and worked tirelessly last year along with her staff and so much has improved. Ofsted are due again in the next few weeks and I wouldn't be surprised if the school got a good this time.
I think you can get a feel for a school when you visit and talk to the head, you will know if it's right for your children.

Well, our school isn;t failing (the one ds3 attends the SNU attached to, not the pseudo-posh one the others attend) but it is scruffy, in an area with a rep and people turn their nose up at it.

It is bloody wonderful; welcoming, incredible eladership- and if onlyI could get ds4 there we'd be there like a shot (ds3 LEA taxi'd in).

One of the schools near here is/was in special measures, and nowhere near full as a result because nobody wanted to send their children there. The small class sizes have made up for other problems for many children, especially those who need a bit more individual attention. And they've had extra money for various new initiatives, which has helped, too.

The school my dc are at was in special measures about 10 years ago. It is now a very good school, and in the past five years has been very much in the top quarter of the league tables (not the be all and end all I know). Last year, all the children in Y6 reached a L4.

Schools can turn around, but you need to ask what is being done. In the case of our school, the head was dismissed and very experienced dragon leader was put in place. This was because there was real problems at the school.

These days perfectly good schools are failing on paperwork safeguarding issues. I know of one school that went from outstanding to failing in one inspection because of paperwork. It was still the best co-ed school in the borough, and is still horribly oversubscribed despite ofsted. Infact, it still says "Outstanding 2007" on its headed notepaper even though it is in special measures! Actually it is an outstanding school, and we are not in the catchment area (sob).

We have booked a visit. They sent me a lovely email saying that they had spaces and would love to meet with us (this was the headmistress).

Some 'friends' who live in the area (and who have kids in the 'full to capacity' schools) are trying to put us off - I think this is quite a ridiculous reason- the school has attached to it a 'rescource' center for children with learning difs, adhd, aspergers, some behavioural problems. The lessons are seperate but 'social times' are joint with the 'main' part of the school

I cant think why people think that this is a 'negative' aspect of the school- I would have thought that this would be a positive???
or am I missing something????????