mixed ability tables in classroom

[sitdownpleasegeorge]

ds has been subject to a few years at primary school now and each year so far the children have been grouped according to the teacher's perception of their ability except initially in reception until the children had been assessed. Different teachers have assessed the children slightly differently but I've been happy to go with the flow/let them get on with it and it has worked well for ds so I'm assuming it has for his class mates too.

This year there are just 2 large tables completely mixed up ability wise (small class of less than 20 children anyway) and now ds sits next to the one child in the class who......., well how can I put this in a pc fashion, needs the most support and attention from the teacher in order to control their behaviour.

This is the first time he has dragged his heels on the walk to school and dawdled his way through the routine of lunchbox on shelf, coat on peg etc etc. He simply isn't keen to start his school day sitting next to this child and has been in tears over getting a ticking off from the teacher for reacting to the child's provocation and silliness.

Basically, he's not a happy bunny and not enjoying school life so much any more.

Someone has to sit next to the disruptive child and maybe the teacher thought that ds would calm them down but if it is affecting his enjoyment of school life and willingness to be there should I say something and if so what on earth do I say and to whom, the teacher or the Headteacher ? (Reasoning for HT being that this teacher obviously believes mixed ability tables are the way they wish to teach/run their classroom so perhaps not willing to be challenged on seating arrangements).

The problem is not mixed ability tables per se, but your child sitting next to this disruptive child. After all, it wouldn't be any nicer for your ds to have his learning disrupted if he was on the same ability level as this boy. And it is quite possible that the situation was equally stressful for some other child when they were grouped according to ability. (My ds is of lower ability, but he is well behaved and wouldn't like disruption either).

So I would go into the school not to criticise the new system, but to explain to the teacher that your ds is upset and ask if she can think of any way to help. Without insisting on any solution, just leaving it with her.

Bumping for the evening crowd although very late now due to meltdown by ds this evening.

We've had very challenging behaviour (out of character for him) and he was too wound up to accomplish anything useful like homework or music practice.

You're right cory the mixed ability tables is a red herring, it's mixing those keen to learn, with a previously solid work ethic, with those with a tendancy to pratt about and trying to involve their nearest classmates that is the problem.

I feel so selfish for even considering attempting to intervene but ds is distractable and not necessarily assertive enough to deal with sorting out a disruptive child sat next to him whereas I can think of another 2 children in the class who are cool/more focussed and assertive, they would have been my choices if I was the teacher.

This is only the third week of term, do you think I should give it a bit longer ?

You're right to let the teacher know how unhappy your son is at the moment but I'm intrigued as to how you know about the 'cool' and 'assertive' children's behaviour in class! Sometimes a child's perspective of how well another is coping doesn't reflect actual performance and, unless you have insider information, it's likely that your impression as a parent may not be wholly accurate.

Speak to the teacher and ask if she could have a word with your son about how she can help him have a happier time in school. It may be that she moves him or perhaps that she makes more of an effort to notice and praise his attempts to ignore others' disruptive behaviour.

If I use large group tables in my class I make a point of encouraging collaboration and rewarding children who help each other to focus. I will mix up the groups regularly but wouldn't be impressed if a parent were to suggest that X or Y would be better candidates for the seat next to the tricky child!

God, no way would I make suggestions, the classroom is the teacher's domain as far as I am concerned. Different class teachers have placed ds on different ability level tables in the past but that was presumably due to their differing opinions/assessments of him.

He's been fine until now.

Oh, I see you are intrigued by my judgement of cool/assertive class behaviour.
Several of us parents have helped out in class/on trips over the years so we have between us got a fairly good picture of class behaviour/interactions and no, we don't gossip in a breach of confidentiality manner, as I mentioned also, it is quite a small class (and in a fairly tight-knit community).On the whole parents are tactful and "pc" about each others children, even behind their backs.

As a teacher could you suggest how I should advise ds to not react to the disruptive pupil's actions ? I can no longer give my time to help out so I don't see what actually happens and in my experience ds is not brilliant at explaining the circumstances.

After an incident in the previous year where ds was upset after being told off by the teacher for reacting to the same pupil when they just happened to have to stand close together for something I advised him to just stay away from this pupil if at all possible but that is now not workable advice for him.

When you say your ds reacts to this pupil, how does he react? Does he do anything he is not supposed to? Does he tell the teacher or does he hit back?

Cory, this is what I am trying to get to the bottom of with ds without magnifying things in his mind by discussing it too much.

Ds's emotions over the incident seem to render him umable to explain it clearly and I don't want to make a big deal out of it by probing in minute detail but at the same time I need the facts in order to help him if possible with advice or a conversation with the teacher.

we've gone for mixed ability tables with one of our year groups this year - coincidentally one with 21 children in the class as well. As the others hae said, you're not necessarily criticising anything at all, you're just saying that your ds doesn't seem happy with his current placement and could they please try moving things round a bit.... We'd have no problem at all if a parent came in and said that. Your ds may have been placed there as you say to calm the other child, but this sort of stuff is very much a two-way thing and if it's not to your ds's benefit then there is no good reason for leaving things as they are. Try not to worry too much about having the conversation with the class teacher or HT (personally I'd prefer that parents saw us as class teachers first, rather than making it into a biggie with the Head) but just stick to your own child's viewpoint. If they're worth their salt they'll just do a bit more swapping!

Thanks MrsShrek.

There are only 17 in ds's class, it is rather unique as they started with over 20 but lots of children moved out of the area and only one child joined them later.

Can I ask what your school's reasons are for having mixed ability tables in just that one year group ?

Having thought about it overnight I thought I'd maybe give in to my social conscience and
ask if ds can be moved in a few weeks, this gives him some time to see if he can develop a way of dealing with the situation and lets him take a turn in sitting next to this child but leaves me knowing that he won't have a less enjoyable time in the classroom for the whole school year. Who knows, his teacher may be planning on doing this anyway.

I'd have a quick chat with the teacher just to let your know your ds is unapphy and give her a chance to sort things out before I went in making suggestions about them changing tables.

There is no harm in speaking to the teacher about this - tbh, they should also have noticed by now.

And on a personal level I spent three miserable years next to a boy who made my life a nightmare (literally) and despite my mother's requests I was left to sit next to him. Many years later I bumped into a teacher who had taught me during this period and the topic of conversation turned to this, I asked why she did not move me after my mother had been to see her and her response was "well she did not come back and follow up!" When I told her about some of the stuff this bullying little so and so had inflicted on me, she did have the grace to apologise.

So if at first you don't succeed go back and talk to the teacher again - children have one chance, make sure it is the very best that you can give them.

I agree with LatteLady....the teacher needs to consider your childs needs too...my own DD sat next to a little girl with many emotional problems in year 1 and within three weeks the teacher moved the little girl away as she was jogging my DD's arm and taking her things/copying her work...seems silly but thes are big deals when you've just turned 5!

As you say...someone has to it next to the child...and while I think you are wise to see if your DD finds was f coping in the next few weeks...I also think that he should not have to! School is for his enjoyment too...does the child next to him bully him or just bother him?

LatteLady,

To the school's credit they do make a huge effort with the child in question and over the years allowances have been made for a variety of home events/circumstances but tbh most of the children in the class have experienced many of the same kind of things for which allowances have been made e.g. new sibling, moving house, death of a grandparent, death of a pet, daddy working away or no dad around iyswim.

It just seems like the child's classmates have to make allowances for the child's latest unsettling event and if they are not socially mature enough to do so (as in ds's case) then they are ticked off for rising to whatever provocation has been inflicted on them.

I know from the shared classroom experiences of other parents that any improvement in this child's behaviour (should they be taken aside and talked to about "not disturbing/provoking the people sitting either side of them") will be at best temporary, unlikely to last beyond a few days of extreme effort rewarded with lots of praise before it tails off and reverts back to causing problems for their nearest classmate.

I would definitely mention his unhappiness to the teacher but at the same time would encourage him to inform her if he feels any person he is working with/next to is preventing him from learning. I would help him to come up with a selection of phrases he could use in order to calmly ask the offending child to stop, "please keep your hands to yourself", "please don't talk to me like that, it isn't friendly/makes me sad" etc. and also some 'help phrases' he can use with the teacher, "please may I move.... I can't concentrate because my book is being moved/I'm being kicked/X keeps poking me".

He needs an arsenal of assertive phrases he can use, I would ask the teacher if you and she could meet (along with your DS) to work out the phrases he will use and the likely consequences of them.... I have done this before and it can help children to feel much more in control of the situation. For example, if I arrange with a child that if s/he says, "Mrs SE13 I'm finding it hard to concentrate because I'm being kicked" I will have undertaken to move the kicking child and the disrupted child will know that if X then Y is true so has the confidence to ask for help.

Mixed performance tables can be fantastic but there are some children who actually prefer to have an opt out - in my current class I have children mixed up but one child finds that hard to cope with. This child has a place on a team table but also a 'secret table' which is slightly separated. It is largely up to this child to choose where to sit (although I do direct him if he is distracting others).

Anenome,

It's just small stuff like ankle kicking under the table or repeatedly knocking their knees into ds's, wobbling the end of a ds's pencil, taking all the rulers within reach so ds has nothing to measure with and has to make a fuss to get one returned, tapping on the ds's calculator buttons so he has to start his sum all over again whilst trying to shield the calculator from the child. The child is not picking on ds in particular, it would apparently be anyone sat next to them so I wouldn't say it was bullying.

Politely informing the teacher is what I had advised last week but incredibly, the disruptive child is now wise to this according to ds and apparently sticks their hand up immediately they realise ds has his hand up to point out the problem to counter with an accusation against ds or sometimes leaves their seat and dashes up to the teacher to get their immediate attention.

Beacuse allowances are made for the child it appears to be an uneven playing field as far as "X did this", "ds did that" (whether he did or not) is concerned.

Thanks for all the advice ladies, much appreciated.

SE13Mummy gives great advice...I agree that arming DS with polite and reasonable phrases will do a lot to empower him....things like "Excuse me, but I can't add my sums up because X keeps pressing the buttons on my claculator"

Explain to DS that losing his temper won't help but that calmly pointing out the offendors behaviour is hindering his work WILL.

Practice a bit...I did some role play with my DD when she was getting pushed about by another girl...not bullied but manipulated...my DD loved it and having practiced she then went ahead and used the phrases with the offendor...and it worked.

I particularly like the "please may I move because..." suggestion from SE13. It sounds better than "X is doing....", which comes across as simply tale telling with no self-help suggestion request included.

Will try and find quiet time to role play this weekend.

Still intrigued to know why they have mixed up the ability groups in this year after so many years of separate tables, surely it makes the weekly spellings, maths and times tables tests complicated as they are all at different levels or nominally in different groups for each of these activities.

as you asked twice ... I thought it only polite to answer :)
The reason for mixed ability grouping in one class is mainly for motivation of the entire group. They collect 'team points' for their table for a reward system, and with all tables having a fairly equal chance this works well. The table are well balanced and there is good behaviour all round, as the usual stereotypes of chatterboxees/brainboxes/additional needs are all mixed up. The children's self esteem seems hugely improved in all cases, not just for the children who would have been on the lower ability tables and who would have been well aware of this in an ability grouped class. It gives us more scope for children taking on varied roles in their groups, we have cards for them to show their 'job' in a task, such as "includer", "scribe", "explorer" and so on, and their 'job' will change from task to task and will rarely be the same consecutively. It does work really well, if done properly.

Bless you for coming back to the thread to satisfy my curiosity MrsShrekTheThird.

I can see no problems except ensuring that all children benefit from it. There's no doubt in my mind that ds is suffering at the moment. So far he's fluffed his spellings once and his times tables twice, despite knowing all of them perfectly when we went through them at home the morning before and the evening after the class tests. This means that he's now now fallen behind in his progress through the various lists (a situation that will possibly now remain for the rest of the school year) and watching children he previously sat with being ahead of him is upsetting him, perhaps more than it should I know but he's competitive with his school work and this has never previously been seen as a bad thing by the school (in fact they seem to encourage it across the school in a light hearted jokey way). He's also a child that needs not to be distracted at this age, hopefully self motivation and the ability to focus on the task will develop as he matures.

I'm positive that ds is not suffering from the mixed ability table itself, he just needs to be seated near someone of any ability, higher or lower who doesn't mess about or throw strops over stuff. I'm a bit disappointed that the teacher did not liaise with the previous year's teacher in deciding on seating arrangements. It could have saved ds from 3 weeks of not enjoying school so much. Just a "here's my seating plan can you foresee any potential problem areas ?" would, I'm fairly certain, have elicited the response that ds was not mature enough to handle sitting next to the child in question. It's not like it's a class of 30, there's only 17 of them (half the number to consider compared with some state primary school teachers).

I cannot seem to jolly him out of being upset about appearing to be behind his previous year's table mates in the spellings/times tables progress and the situation could go on for the rest of the year. I'll appear outrageously pushy if I ask for him to be allowed to catch up by learning two lots in a week (which he is more than capable of) but first I need to stop the rot if you see what I mean.

Enough of my self-indulgent ramblings on ds's behalf. Apparently ds is now being told to put his hand down at times together with the child in question so I fear that SE13's strategy will not work, I am resigned to being a pushy parent and asking the teacher to move him, after explaining that he is expressing unhappiness each day when I pick him up at pesent.

It's clearly upsetting you. And him, obv... I'd definitely arrange to see the teacher asap. Explain as clearly as you have here. Anyone can see you have no prejudice in terms of sen, just the way that your own child is affected by the distractions that the child next to him presents. It is the school's job to make sure that all children have equal access to learning, and at this point in time your son clearly doesn't have this. I'd be mortified if a parent was thinking all this and not coming in to tell me.

Thanks MrsShrek.

Plan of action is to get homework and music practice over with tonight and then not mention school at all over the weekend.

I have invited a non-school friend to play tomorrow and we're having a family day out/get together on Sunday so he hopefully won't have time to let his thoughts dwell too much on school things before I speak to his class teacher on Monday.

ooh very same prblem with my ds as you said!

I am glad I spoke to ds' teacher on friday as they weren't aware that he is unhappy at school

hopefully we'll both be seeing a positive change by next week
it's horrible to see ds like this, he has always been mega enthusiastic about school

Well, that went better than planned.

Got there super early to have time to talk to ds's teacher who, although they were of the opinion that it was "six of one and half a dozen of the other" if you know what I mean as far as who was disrupting whom is concerned, immediately made ds swap seats with another child.

I bit my tongue regarding the teacher's opinion that it was a 2 way street as far as disrupting each other is concerned, she sees them all day in the classroom after all. Ds might hopefully now demonstrate that he can just get on with his work a calm and enthusiastic manner for which he has been specifically praised in previous years school reports.

I was a bit spooked on the way out through the cloakroom area though, as the child in question's mother beamed at me and gave me a very cheery greeting which is not normal. Guilt-tripped me a bit.