Modern foreign languages in KS2

[Sinkingfeeling]

Does anyone know if state primary schools still have to teach a foreign language in KS2? My twins have just started Y3 and there's no sign of any foreign language teaching yet, though I know French has been taught in previous years. I know I should just ask the school, but wondered what the overall position is.

With languages learning them at a young age is a good think imo as I think young children's brains are more receptive to it.

BUT, I think if we do start learning languages younger in this country as the norm, then we will need a bit of an overhaul of the examination structure as otherwise we still won't have any better linguists at age 16 as they will still just be aiming for a GCSE by then. It could even be counter-productive as learning a language for too long at a basic level could put more children off than it encourages.

As an example a friend's child and mine went to the same nursery. Once a week from about age 2 they had a French person come and do some French things with them (not sure what - probably singing a few nursery rhymes in French). My ds left at 3, may have done a bit of French again in year 2 (can't remember) and did a little again in year 6. Then started again in year 7 through to GCSE in year 11 and did very well, but was probably at GCSE standard by the end of year 9 and didn't really enjoy the final two years as he didn't feel he learnt anything new. My friends child went from the nursery to a pre-school that was part of a 3-18 school that taught French right from the pre-school up, so her child learned French right from age 2 up to GCSE option time at age 14. At this point he gave up the subject as he was bored with it (as did quite a number of his peers). Hardly surprising, but a shame he didn't come away with any qualification after all that time or have the opportunity to take a higher level qualification instead of GCSE which would have been more interesting and hopefully appealing. I'm all in favour of children starting earlier, but they will need to somehow be fast-tracked through the exam system and hopefully become really fluent (which GCSE level isn't). At year 7 senior schools will need to cater both for new starters to a language and those with several years exposure already.

Thats a differentiation problem though. You can pass the same exam regardless whether you start at 4 or 11 but starting at 4 gives you more time to assimilate the accent, use the language, explore a breadth of vocabulary etc. A class can cover the same topic at different levels - the same article can be used to teach different things. An article on school life in France for example Level 1 could be working on identifying vocab. Level 2 could be working on present vs past tense. Level 3 might be looking at differences between French and Emglish school life and preparing a presentation/writing a letter to an imaginary pen pal/a similar article about English school life. It means spending time in small groups but oral work it's quite easy to mix and match levels for role plays. Some just need more hints on structure/vocab than others. The problem is finding teachers who can do that, as in those whose grasp of the language ishoos enough to teach way above the level required and have the teaching skills to differentiate effectively.

I teach EFL at university level and I still need to differentiate even though all the students have passed their bac. It's time we stopped seeing exams as the highest point to aim for and more as a minimum standard.

That said the level required for GCSE is shockingly low and very little of it is useful in the real world so there's another argument there.

Forgot to say many schools do offer the opportunity for top set to sit the gcse early and go on to do AS level at 16 or drop the subject to make room for another. I'm suprised your friend's DS didn't have that option.

Doing GCSE early and then AS level seems like the obvious thing to do, but it wasn't an option in his case.

And I do agree being able to converse in the language is far more important than exam passing - I'm sure her ds would surpass mine in conversational French though mine has the GCSE, but equally it's a bit scandalous given the competition for university places these days that he has nothing to show for that skill on paper.

In DS's primary they do Spanish with a fully qualified specialist language teacher from Reception to Yr6.
DS really enjoys it and is progressing well.

But I would be unhappy if general primary school teachers with no skill or knowledge or clue about accent were attempting to teach from a book!

And...if they have to drop something to accommodate proper language teaching, I would be happy to see RE go.

DC are taught Spanish and French about as well (or poorly as it were) as you describe, Blu. I keep correcting the Spanish pronunciation!

The GCSE is not really that challenging to kids who are linguists. It has a lot of phrase book style repetition and often does not substitute language into other contexts. There is so much emphasis on just learning phrases to be repeated parrot style. When I did O level there was a lot of translation and manipulation of the language which is where the real mental skills develop and where kids will be more motivated and interested. Of course translation methods are not ideal alone and conversation should alos be key but the O levels did offer languages as more of a discipline and mental test rather than just a case of memorising phrases for particular contexts. This instills a love of language and words and makes people more aware of their own language and it folows that they are more aware of its subtelties and get more out of communicating. So I say as much exposure to languages as possible, be it in a bad accent or not. If it was done in the right way and given the status that it deserves ie of a proper challenging subject then kids would love it.

and if it were done early, they could progress to GCSE standard at 14 and do an AS level at 16.

I think the key to languages is to be able to communicate in another language really opens up a whole new world. It gives you so much confidence and such a thrill to think 'He just understood what I said!'
I think the way languages have been dummed down in this country is desperately sad and we are robbing kids of a life enriching experience.