Class sizes in reception - what are your views...

[Daydreaming]

My DD has just started reception. There are 30 in the class, with one teacher and one teacher's assistant. I understand this is fairly standard for all state schools.
My DD has no special needs and I think is a fairly bright and confident 4 year old, but she is used to having lots of one to one attention. She previously went to a small nursery school with staff ratios of about 1 to 5.

My concern is that this is such a huge change, and that whole days may go by without her getting any attention.
I do realise that this is standard, and I should be grateful for a free education, etc. I could possibly afford to go private, but in my part of London I don't have any local private schools so I would need to move I think (I work so a long school run is not an option).

Do you think I need to be concerned? I am just worried that my DD will stop being a little girl who asks lots of questions, etc. because she will just give up after a while if she is constantly being ignored.

I agree with Pixie, although just from my own perspective so far (DD1 in Y1) is that....if your child has specific needs (whether special needs, G&T, whatever your definition is), you will have to provide a lot of that input at home or fight tooth and nail to get it (unless you are very very lucky, and it might change from year to year).

From a one to one point of view, I found actually it's good not to have too much attention in order to develop the social skills, ie learn to share and take turns with a lot of other children etc....

So your DD1 won't be constantly ignored as she will have lots of other children there and some group input!

I do think 30 in a class is too many though, I think 20 is probably a better balance. Only my opinion though!

In wales government guidelines for adult:child ratio in reception is 1:8 children . My DD's class has 1 teacher, 2 full time and 1 part time classroom assistants.I think optimum class size is 21, obviously smaller still would be better but i think research showed that in classes of 22-30 level of achievement did not improve. I'll have a look for links

"The state system produces lots and lots of bright, interested people, many of whom go on to be doctors, architects, dentists etc".

Sorry, Pixie, but that comment is extremely patronising.

That's really interesting that in Wales the ratio is so different - I think 1 to 8 would be ideal.

I guess one of the reasons I am concerned is that for the first 1.5 weeks the class was split into two groups, with one half doing mornings and the other half doing afternoons. That seemed ideal. This morning, with 30 children, it seemed very crowded... I think it will be quite good for my DD to learn to get on with things on her own, but I think 1 adult per 15 four year olds is just too many.

I think I will see how it goes, but it just doesn't seem ideal.

Daydreaming the last government in their wisdom included reception children (rightly IMO) in the Foundation Stage (pre statutory education) but decided for some reason to give them the same adult to child ratio as KS1 children ... one adult to thirty children so technically there doesn't need to be a teaching assistant ...madness!
No you don't need to be concerned but obviously more adults would always be welcome

I think this is when the parents who can need to step up and offer the school help. Our school ensures that there are parents on hand to listen to reading and help out in the library so that all do get their turn.

It is a bit unfortunate if your child is a quieter member of the class - usually it is only the 'problem' children who usually get the attention.

Saying all this, my quiet daughter was one of 30 children in her class and there was a teacher and TA in the class and she never really complained about not getting her fair amount of attention ..

At key stage 2 the numbers can go up dramatically. We are currently on 31 but local schools around us are running at 36 in a class with one teacher and a p/t assistant. Apparently that is normal so we are told for this area.

Wow I am moving to Wales! I would be interested to know how Wales can afford this ratio and not England...

We only had one teacher to 40 children in my primary school and they missed so much out i was still trying to catch up 15 years later during my degree.
I think if you are going to use the state system you have to realise you'll be doing a massive amount of topping up yourself and be prepared for your weekends and evenings to be taken up with that.

strandedatsea they can't which has already cause a delay in the roll out of the FSP news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7440876.stm
kirstywilliams.org.uk/news/000470/report_confirms_foundation_phase_fiasco.html
estyn.co.uk/ThematicReports/Foundation%20Phase%20training.doc.pdf

It's not a problem. It probably seems a shock after what you're used to. If she's bright and lively and she has supportive parents then she'll have a fab time and do well.

You certainly won't need a "massive amount of topping up"

how is pixie's comment patronizing?

In Wales just recently it has finally just been ensured that the funding continues for foundation phase 3-7 year olds. This meens that from 3 year olds to reception it is a 1-8 ratio and 15 for years 1 and 2.

*Year 2 will be in foundation phase in Sep 2011.

It is a play based with a strong outdoor influence so the ratios are impotant.

The funding for foundation phase has( in 1 county) come from the 3 year old budget so that children in said couty starts at term before they are three

There are 39 in DS's class (26 are boys!) they get round the figures by team teaching, so you hope there is enough cover but quite probably not at times during the day. I am not too worried for reception as i think a lot of their learning is through play.

DD1 goes to the same school and seems to have a greater level of group/one to one sessions.

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6057733
"there are concerns that the levels of investment needed to make the scheme a success cannot be sustained. A draft budget will follow the Westminster Government?s spending review next month."

"A Welsh Assembly Government spokesperson said: ?We do not know what our budget settlement will be beyond the current financial year. In advance of (the UK public spending review) settlement we have been undertaking work on our pressures and priorities to inform spending plans once our budget is known."

In my county in local news the LEA has ensured the money.

I think given the present financial situation no one in education can predict what will happen too far in the future

My mum was in a class of 49 children when she went to primary school. Of whom 7 to her knowledge went to Cambridge/Oxford.

I think there is an optimum number. DS is currently (as a September starter) in a class of 31, with 2 full time teachers and 2 classroom assistants. In January he will be in a class of 30 with 1 teacher and 1 classroom assistant. I would be happier if it were about 24. But have already seen bright and confident dd cope well as a january starter straight into the 30/1teacher&1TA set up.

Much less than 20 and I would start to feel concerned that not enough children in the class for diverse friendship groups.

Yes I know but the county I am in have made a hard hard plan so that this will be covered and rati's maintained. This is ok ATM for the next 3 years.

That's good news we've just seen a large chunk of our guaranteed EY budget clawed back by the LA due to government cuts