Is it far too late?

[gorionine]

Sorry, this is going to be a long one and is probably going to go back and forth but please bear with me.

Ok, DS2 is 9, he is a very sensitive child in the sense that the cares a lot about thing, not in a crying way (although he can be a bit of a winger). He tends to bottle up things that hurt him or things that he thinks might hurt someone, in that instance, me and DH.

Last year someone in his class (whom which Ds does not get along at all, never has as often been in trouble because of him) referred to Dh as "your Paki dad"(DH is North African) to him. Understandably Ds was really hurt apparently he told his teacher but I was never told.

Story came out of DS's mouth yesterday afternoon as he had an argument with the same boy and was told of by the teacher. Ds tried to explain the old event to her but was cut short by the teacher who did not want to hear it.

Ds came out of school sobbing and started talking about all the events that had happened between them 2 in the last few years. The "Paki" one came out to me for the first time. As I understand it happened with last year's teacher. When I asked him why he didn't tell me or his dad at the time he said "because it would have made you sad" and then started crying some more. While he was telling me all that, his current teacher who had told him of that day saw us talking, she came to me and said that Ds had been "borderline rude" to her several times after the event, and that he was short with her and looked angry at her. She asked if I could talk it through with him over the week end and get back to her on Monday which I agreed to as I think this needs sorting. After having talked to DS, he explained to me that when he was told off again for an argument with the same boy, he just had enough because he is never actually listened to because the other boy always "gets in first". So this time he thought he'd tell everything from the start and got on saying "because once..." and the teacher shouted "once? you complain about something that happened once?!" and refused to listen to him.

I think he has been let down by myself (for not having picked up he was upset sooner), last years teacher who has not told me about what I consider an important enough incident and this year one as he does not seem to have been given a chance to let things out and give his side of the story.

Now I will ask him to apologies for being short with his teacher but I want as well to insist that he is listened to as well when he has a complaint. I also think I should ask last year's teacher about the past event to know both why I was never told about it at the time and what was done about it. Is it too late?

anyone?

It's a difficult one. I've been in the same situation with my DS and what I've found it the teacher won't like you for questioning their judgement and from my experience will be frosty (at the very least) with your DS if you do. Just my experience and I didn't go in there all guns a blazing either. I'm not sure what to suggest. I feel for your DS because if he feels he hasn't been listened to of course he's going to feel angry with his teacher as he feels it unfair. I suppose all you can do is speak to the teacher on Monday and say first off you've told him he can't be rude to the teacher but he was upset by this other boy, not for the first time so can she tell you what she intends to do to keep them apart or monitor the situation. Good luck.

The first thing I'd do is google that Sunday Times (?) article on racism, school, and Lewes that appeared a while back. use those key words. Warning: It may be not have ben in the Sunday times, perhaps Guardian???

You need to be clear about where you stand on this, because it is about how the school deal with race issues, and that may well mean you are going to have to be the educator here, and will have to be, sad to say, quite clear yourself about how defensive the school might be.

At the risk of lots of people jumping on me, I do not think this is a teacher issue, I think it's a Head issue.

If it were me, I'd be, gently at first, making the very clear point that this is a longer-embedded issue, and has its roots in the question about why your son didn't feel empowered to raise the issue when it first occurred. I'd point out that that has led to its being subterranean for an entire year.

A school should not be a place where a child feels alienated enough not to be able to raise issues of racial abuse/racism, and for that to seep into their home-life, and to internalise, at home, that they must keep secrets about the depth of problems at school.

I'd be saying that I realise this is an issue we all must work on, for the good of all.

I'd say that the teacher's inability to deal with the "tail" of this speaks loudly of a structural problem, which in and of itself means that it cannot be corralled, and cauterised into a limited, series of incidents: one occurring last year, and "done with", and one occurring this year, and being about disobediance/rudeness.

I'd make it clear that you are happy to deal with the infractions of rules etc. that your son has displayed, but you are going to need some serious help from the school in dealing with the wider issues, because otherwise you know, and they know, you are going to be sitting in this office again.

I'd be prepared to go through the negative narrative, too, of how being the target of obvious, or even oblivious racism, impacts on children's behaviour, and you don not want your son taking that route.

Good luck. At least he's told you.

Thanks Tabliope, I am not intending to go all guns blasing. DD1 just finished the same school and there has never been the slightest problem. I have had a very good relationship with all the teachers. On top of it I still have 2 other children in the school and I have started working there as well this September. The last thing I want is to allienate the teachers and possibly the HT but somehow I do feel that if I do nothing Ds will quite simply resent me (with reason as well) and totally dread going to school . I realy do not want that.

The teacher did mention she will try to keep them appart wich I suppose is a very good step towards things getting better.

Animula I had x-posted. I agree with pretty much everything you say. I just cannot not mention anything.

The other problem is we are on our 4th HT since Ds2 started schooland the new one was not yet appointed when the thing happened.

I will try to find this article you are refering to. Thank you very much your post really made sense to me and hepled me see things in a clearer light.

Animula, is this the one?

gorionine, I think animula's reply is excellent. What I found frustrating is each incident was deemed to be separate and the school was reluctant to see a pattern of bullying as there were gaps between things happening. I should have said in my last post that the race incident should be brought up and your DS's feelings and reaction to it - he buried it in his mind for fear of upsetting you and your DH. Maybe his current teacher doesn't know about this past incident and needs to know. You must speak out was you're right in thinking your DS might resent you but all I wanted to say was from my experience speaking out labelled me and my DS as awkward but then it was to a really useless head who'd had numerous complaints made about her (she still managed to keep her job though). Hope it goes well for you. If you can take your DH do. I believe they'll do more if you have a man with you (I'm expecting to get shot down for that, but again just my experience).

Very good advice so far, but as a teacher and parent of an sn child can I recommend that you keep a running log of any incidents that your child or his teachers report to you?
So then you can look at patterns that might be developing, you have a form of evidence to show if some incidents are related rather than being isolated and individual and you can support your questions and explanations by calmly referring to dates, times individuals and actions taken. Let the school know you are doing this in a supportive and helpful way.

That's referring to the article, yes, Gorionine. I've just realised the actual article is probably behind the paywall. Which is irritating, but I'll bet you can hunt it down at your local library. I do think it's worth a look, because it draws on research, and, actually, sometimes it's just good to hear about others who've been there. (Not Lewes: the situation. Which isn't just confined to Lewes (!), and as Goblinchild makes clear, touches on issues of inclusion generally.)

Just one thing, to all of you; it's such a big thing to have parents who listen and take things seriously, and show that they validate and support. That's something quite clearly all of you have done for your children already. And, Gorionine, you're already showing your child that he doesn't have to worry about protecting you, that you can cope with this, and other challenges life throws up. So give yourselves a little cheer there.

I'm sorry if I sound mawkish, but my poor parents found this sort of thing ("sort" of similar, not quite the same,) very difficult. And I don't think parents get congratulated enough for dealing with difficulties, instead we always worry we haven't done more, or better (whatever that is).

I have been a teacher and so I was thinking how I would react in those circumstances. I think an apology to the teacher for any rudeness would be a good idea and would get the chat off to a good start, as teachers always really appreciate parents who will help reinforce school discipline and encourage their DCs to take responsibility for their actions.
Then raise the history between your DS and this other child and explain your concerns and ask if the teacher will keep a look out for any similar incidents and keep you informed. Explain that your DS has a habit of keeping things to himself and that he might be more upset about things than he appears to me. The teacher is still getting to know the children so may well be unaware of this. Also tell your DS that he must keep you and the teacher informed of any similar incidents.
Generally teachers do want to help and if it's presented as a 'everyone work together to resolve this' the teacher will probably bend over backwards to help, as opposed to an accusation which just puts teachers on the defensive. You say you have a good relationship with the school - the last thing they will want is to spoil this. Good luck!

Thank you all so very much! It is very helpfull to see that actually everyone is thinking on the same line.

Goblin I think it is time for me to start writing things down as well as up to now, I sort of saw all tis as separate incident which they might not be .

I will go and see the teacher this morning, Ds will appologise and I will make sure I put all my concerns on the table. I will see were I go from there and if there is a need to go and see HT.

So, we went this morning. It turned out that Ds was not actually rude to the teacher, she just was concerned because she saw he was angry/upset but was saying he was "fine" so she thought I might have more luck to actually find out. I had misunderstood probably due to me concentrating more on what Ds was saying than her. So that is out of the way.

I did mention the "paki" incident to her, she said she had not heard of it but that racist incidents are usually recorded and sent to the council. She will ask for if that was done and will let me know.

On the front of him thinking he would not be listened to because he "did not get thwere first" , the teacher said that she has noticed that a few others than Ds thought the same and that she was going to talk to them to explain that it is not the case and that she does want to listen to all parties , without them interrupting each other wich means that there is sometimes a gap between her hearing several versions.

With the particular case with this other boy, it has been decided that they would not sit down near eachother on the carpet and that for litteracy for which they share a table she will make sure they are not side by side either and whenever possible she will get them in different groups altogether.

All in all I feel I have been listened to and also that she was herself genuinly concerned at him being upset.

Thanks for all your support again!

"She will ask for if that was done and will let me know."

sorry, there should not be a "for" in there!

Glad you're happy it's got sorted and hope your DS can put it behind him now.

All state schools have to fill in a certain form for any racist incident and it HAS to be dealt with. I'm glad she's going to check if it's been done, but if it hasn't, you need to insist that this is recorded.

Sounds like a horrible child.

Hope all is OK from now on.

Good to hear of it going well. May things continue well for you all.

Quick update, last year' teacher seems to have forgotten the incident. I can only assume it means nothing "official" has been done about it then.