school toilet rules - is this common practice?

[mamasmissionimpossible]

DS (4) has just started reception this week. I took him in today and he said that he needed the toilet and could I take him. I was going to take him inside, as I would usually, but the headteacher stopped me and said I was not allowed to go inside the toilet with him, in case of any other children being there (there wasn't)

Is this common practice in schools now? I did feel a bit take aback when he said I wasn't allowed to take my own child to the toilet.

What next, a CRB check for every parent?

It's not just about assault though, is it?

Most kids' loos in schools have low, sometimes non-locking doors to the cubicles. Any adult standing in the room would be tall enough to see into any of the cubicles. I'm sure at 6 or 7 I wouldn't have wanted to have a poo or a wee with some random adult being able to watch me. It's not unreasonable for children to have the expectation of privacy when they go to the loo.

If a child is old enough to be at school, then he's capable of using the loos by himself; if he genuinely needs help wth that, then presumably there is some kind of disabled loo which can be used.

Absolutely frogs. Small children are entitled to privacy as much adults.

onimolap you will find the "central edict" in the safeguarding children publication from the DCSF
no one not even parents are allowed unsupervised access to children unless they have a CRB check

Are Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks required for all visitors or volunteers to schools and colleges?

<strong> Visitors Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks are not required for visitors. Visitors do not have </strong>unsupervised* access to children.
<strong> Volunteers Checks are required for those who have regular and </strong>unsupervised* access to children and young people.

Safeguarding children

"Regular and unsupervised"

How is an occasional trip to the loo "regular"?

And what is the scale of the issue here? How many assaults take place in school loos?

It all seems very OTT to me as it's a self extinguishing issue once children are confident about the loos and they'reno longer a strange place. Or do teachers/TAs really have time to take 4 yr olds to the loo first thing (when those who have developed the urge en route are bursting to go)?

onimolap it isn't regular but it is unsupervised

How do you think all the children who want to go to the loo after parents leave manage onimolap?

The important bit is that visitors (the OP is a visitor in this context) do not have unsupervised access to children. If she takes her child to the loo and another child comes in she has unsupervised access to that child.

The TAs/teachers don't have to take the children to the toilet; they are safe to go alone because there are no visitors around.

She's not going to get it, no matter how you explain you know.

No, I get it. During the day is indeed different, and children do learn to manage (hence my reference to self extinguishing problem). I would also expect that during the day it is less chaotic than during arrivals, and that as children have freer access to loos than when en route, then urgency may be less and pairing or staff supervision would work.

But there have been no responses to my question on how prevalent assaults, or any other inappropriate behaviour is in loos. Nor on how this is "regular" access (I'm not questioning the unsupervised part, but the only guidence quoted has two conditions, and one of them does not seem to apply to occasional settling in loo help.

My daughter was a cleaner at a school. She would have been delighted at accompanied visits in reception due to the inappropriate peeing deposits either by accident or design that seemed to include all three dimensions.
(You can wee on toilet paper and throw it up to stick on the ceiling apparently)

onimolap we don't supervise children in the loo... it is parents who would require to be supervised if they were allowed to accompany a child into the toilet block.

It might be to do with safeguarding, but probably more importantly to do with moving your child on to the next stage of independence.

I have never taken four year olds to the toilet. Do you do that at home? I imagine not, so why at school?

Surely only if it met both criteria?

I think, like frogs, that it's a privacy issue.
How would your DC feel going into the loo with others' parents hanging around?

onimolap one or both criteria

Why does it matter how prevalent assaults on children in toilets are? The guidelines are not toilet specific they are part of the wider safeguarding issues and inform best practice to not allow visitors unsupervised access to children.

Our school has had this rule for at least 6 years; I also started a thread about it once. :)

Do parents not remember the headlines?
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223528/Parents-banned-supervising-children-playgrounds--case-paedophiles.html
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8250795.stm
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/6281842/CRB-checks-deterring-school-volunteers.html

what bothers me is that children have to go to school younger and younger and we expect them to have all the skills we probably only had several years later. What about good hygiene? I don't think that it is surprising that children in schools pick up so many bugs - handwashing either doesn't happen or not thoroughly (not surprising, it should be done for a full 15 seconds to get rid of bugs), toilets will no doubt be very dirty .... to me it seems we are moving backwards instead of forwards!

Its the same in my DSs nursery - the amount of times he would poo just as I walked in the door at 5.30 to pick him up, but I wasnt allowed to change him. As you can imagine there were screams if Mummy wasnt allowed to come with him, so they would ensure the change room was free and then I could go in - but the nursery staff would change him

In the older rooms I wasnt allowed in when they were going to the toilet either - the nursery staff had to supervise, but I couldnt enter in case another child was in there.

The school has the same rule.

and I'm fully CRB checked and wear my badge when I pick them up ;-)

I find it all very sad. Because if this policy were logically implemented, it would mean no parents inside schoolgates (as posters here say there is no evidence of loos being a known additional risk) because you could encounter a lone child at any point beyond that. Not only would that be excessively harsh on new reception/nursery joiners, it would mean a massive incease in formal accompanied visits by parents for every damned message to the classroom, and force staff and children onto the street to ensure pick ups by the correct adult.

I am very glad our school does not have such a rule and has apparently interpreted the "and" in "regular and unsupervised" access in a more intuitive way than some here do.

My DCs are both past the point of needing familiarizing with unfamiliar loos and the basics of finding them in the early stages, or wanting Mummie to see their new classroom. But I still think this has gone mad. And that other, more humane, policies remain possible.

It is madness and believe me teachers and schools don't like it either. We know all/most of our parents and we have to stand at the door saying sorry you can't come in...