TAs replacing teachers

[LublieAva]

Does anyone know if its ok in practice (or even in theory) for a TA to regularly take charge of a class for a day at a time? How much is too much?

I posted about this elsewhere but I am hoping someone can tell me if its ok or not, even though I can't do anything about it either way!

That was aimed more at the 'guidance' than your comment, Whizzz.

I don't think it's right that TAs are used as cheap replacements when teachers are out of the class for whatever reason but the fact is most of the unions agreed to it. It devalues teachers and takes advantage of TAs

Our governors won't allow what they call 'teaching on the cheap'.

I agree Feenie. Sorry Whizzz but TAs (and I only speak for my school) are Mums that are looking for a job that fits in with children at school. They don't (in some cases) have '0' level (showing my age!) English and Maths. Their grasp of basic grammar and spelling is poor ("Good writting" was a comment in one of my books. "That's lush" was a comment on a model - nice sentiment but inappropriate).
TAs are not teachers - there is a difference in the qualifications required and this should be recognised when determining who is teaching the children.

Mowgli - some TA do have same the same qualifications and experience as teachers; some have more. The background of TAs can vary hugely!

However, if someone is employed as a TA then they shpuld be used as TA. They should no be used as a teacher unles they are employed as one.

I think there should be a distinction in "title" between highly qualified teaching assistants and someone who did a day a week for 10 weeks as it stands to parents they are both TAs!

We do distinguish at our school formally between our Level 1 TAs (called TAs or learning suppoer) and Level 3s (called senior TAs.) But that is it. There is, obviosuly, no way of knowing what individual TAs qualifications and experience is though beyond that.

OP, if the TA is genuinely taking the class for a day each week then I think you have every right to complain. However I would try to find out more first. There may be circumstances you don't know about, for instance in my school we have had qualified teachers work in more of a support role, so that they appear (to the children) to be a TA. Or the TA may only be covering for a couple of weeks at the start of the year.

Mowgli - that may well be your school & unfortunately is the view of a lot of people concerning TAs - few take the time to find out that yes, some just do the job to fit in with their own children but some (myself included, working in Secondary) choose the role because its something that they really wanted to do.

Yes some may not have qualifications - but I and many of my colleagues, are highly educated & professional people who do a tough job with the hardest to 'teach' pupils with little thanks & appalling pay. We 'teach' allbeit on a 1:1 basis, almost every minute of the day, those pupils that the teachers can't reach for whatever reason.

No, you assist teachers - you aren't allowed to teach.

I said it was semantic bollocks.

You sound very dedicated good at your job, Whizzz - but the fact is that TAs don't have to be highly educated, the pay certainly reflects this, and as such quality in candidates is all too often not there.

dedicated and good at your job

But Feenie - IME there are lots of very well qualified and experienced people working in TA roles.

TAs have many roles and sometimes what they do is actually teacing in that they are delivering a lesson or part of a lesson. They may or may not have planned this themselves. The teachers role may or may not be there.

The theory is that TAs should not be teaching.

The reality is often different as there is a fine line between teaching and delivering.

Indeed. That was what I was getting at. How can you be a TA and not teach, regardless of whether you are an HLTA or whatever?

But the quality of TAs is too often not there also, for such an important role.

I think this is why it is important that people know there is a difference between TAs working at Levels 1, 2 3 and HLTAs.

But then it varies so much between schools.

Where I work the majoity of the TAs are well qualified and experienced, and those that aren't are Level 1 and working in very different types of roles.

Not sure what the answer is though.

the quality of TAs though is down to the HT / selection process. I know primary TA roles seem to be hotly contested - my sons school had 70 candidates for 1 advertised post!

Secondary TA work does not seem as popular (as I think less is understood in general about what a TA does in secondary). However you have to have a sound educational background or you simply would not be able to support the pupils in GCSEs!

Yes, I agree with that.

But what if the applications are poor? We had 48 applications for the last post - easy shortlisting because only 5 were in any way legible. Of those shortlisted, two went on holiday and one's Mum phoned up and said she thought the travelling would be too far.

Then the 4th candidate informed us they had got another post in the meantime and we gave up. Circumstances meant we could do without an extra TA anyway on this occasion, but I am regularly involved in shortlisting/interviews and none of this was at all unusual here.

I think it is case of having to readvertise and keep looking ideally, unless it is essential to have a TA there and then.

We seem to be lucky where I work. We have a L3 TA in every class in infants and out of those 9, 4 are qualified teachers wiwth teaching experience, and the rest are qualified TAs with relevant classroom experience, and other reevant qualifications and skills also. We also have some L1 TAs for other roles who are generally hardworking and dedicated, even if not qualified 9hence them being L1) and some of those hope to train further.

Haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone mentioned PPA time? Every teacher AFAIK is entitled to it, and is it not the case that if you are a foundation/KS1/literacy whatever co-ordinator you get more time??

Yes, all teachers are entitled to PPA time and yes, management time is allocated additioanl time for that as well.

I mentioned it in one of my posts as I mentioned that, as a TA, I cover PPA time each weel, as do all the L3 TAs in the school I work at.

I am a supply teacher and TAs are used, they are much much cheaper than employing me. I don't think that they should, but schools are strapped for cash.

But Whizz, this goes back to the argument that an operating theatre nurse could have as much knowledge and experience as a surgeon, does not mean that they are qualified for the job. TAs are woefully undervalued, giving them the job of a teacher for less money than a teacher would be paid adds to this.

When my child goes to school, I will fight for her to be taught by a qualified teacher. Same as when she need an operation I would request a qualified surgeon, etc.

Whizzz, I agree your subject knowledge has to be good to support GCSE pupils. The TAs in my school would not be able to do that. One, in year 6, was laughing in the staffroom as she had to think hard to remember what a pre-fix was.

*prefix

I can see the conversation has moved on from my original post and it makes interesting reading. I hope you don't mind if I digress for a minute though?
Would it be fair to summarise that what is happening to my child's year 2 class - 4 days a week with an NQT and 1 day a week with a TA - is not acceptable theoretically, it does happen but in practice and there is nothing that a parent can do about it?