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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Worried about the table DD had been put on

24 replies

SocialButterfly · 02/09/2010 20:21

DD went back to school today into year 2. She is quite behind, has been referred to Language and Literacy Support and basically struggles as she is a look and see learner and the school teaches phonics, anyhoo......

She is obviously in the bottom group in the class. She has been allocated her table for the year and there are 4 boys, all of who are very badly behaved and 2 other girls who have their own issues and were not at school for a lot of last year.

I just feel that she is going to be overloooked as the teacher is going to be focussing on all the naughty children. Also she is not with any of her friends and I also feel she wont push herself and she has nothing to aspire to - want to be on the same reading level as her friend etc.

Not sure what I want you all to say but its stressing me out - I know I should speak to the teacher but its only the first day and feel like she would want me to see how it goes for a while first.

OP posts:

PixieOnaLeaf · 02/09/2010 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

domesticsluttery · 02/09/2010 20:31

Is she on the table which is getting extra help? I know in my DC's classes there is a table of children who need a little bit more help and support, they usually have the TA sitting with them and they spend some time each week having extra support with another teacher. In which case whe might be more supported.

DS2, who has also gone into Yr2 today, came home and told me that he sat on his own. Which is equally concerning :(

SherbetDibDab · 02/09/2010 20:32

That sounds awful.

My son isn't a phonics boy, have a read of this www.easyreadsystem.com/info/auditorydeficit.html and other bits on this website.- It described him so accurately. Don't know if it means anything to you.

Original poster

SocialButterfly · 02/09/2010 20:37

SherbetDibDab that is DD to a tee, its very frustrating, I have investigated different schools but all of them around here teach phonics.

domesticsluttery - your poor DS, they are a worry aren't they.

Thanks all, I might mention my concerns to the teacher tomorrow but will check if the TA is sitting with them as they would be more positive

OP posts:

SherbetDibDab · 02/09/2010 20:42

We're doing the easy read system with my son. I don't know if it'll work yet but it seems to be going well.

Original poster

SocialButterfly · 02/09/2010 20:46

I just read through - its quite expensive though £770 per year

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mrz · 02/09/2010 21:03

SocialButterfly sorry but the school teaching phonics wouldn't hold your daughter back if she is a look and say learner

SherbetDibDab · 02/09/2010 21:05

Why mrz - It's not enough to just state something as fact?

spanieleyes · 02/09/2010 21:05

Doesn't Easyread say it is a phonic system too?

mrz · 02/09/2010 21:24

Yes Easy Read is a phonics system
their website states

"Highly effective and deceptively simple, the Easyread System succeeds in making ... Easyread delivers a structured phonics course over the Internet."

teaching children to recognise phonemes doesn't preclude them from recognising whole words if they are really natural "look and say learners"

Original poster

SocialButterfly · 02/09/2010 21:29

mrz - I dont agree, she cannot process phonics, if she looks at the word and the shapes of the letters etc she can remember it - if you ask her to break it down or even make the sound ie th she cannot do it.

I would say this means it takes her longer to learn the words?

OP posts:

mrz · 02/09/2010 21:37

SocialButterfly if she really is a "look and say" learner she won't need to process phonics but it won't prevent her from reading
My son was taught phonics at school and has never managed to grasp it (unfortunately) but was still a fluent reader from a very early age with a reading age far in excess of his chronological age because he naturally recognised whole words.

Teacher401 · 02/09/2010 21:38

First of all, it's the first day and the teacher will be getting to know he children. This will not be the childs place for the year and to be honest, it is incredibly irritating when parents come in complaining about seating arrangements when I barely know the children. Wait until you see what happens by half term.

reallytired · 02/09/2010 21:40

SocialButterfly, has your little girl had her ears tested. If she had glue ear then it might explain why she is not getting phonics.

Generally groups are pretty fluid in most primary schools. Grouping children is about meeting your child's learning needs at that point in time. Many children go up, and down tables. For example one little girl in my son's class changed school at the end of reception as her old school was in special measures. She was in the lowest group in year 1 as she was so behind. However she is now in the second group from the top.

I hate the expression "bottom table", it most suggests that children who have not reached a particular stage are lesser people.

Original poster

SocialButterfly · 02/09/2010 21:40

She had the same teacher last year so she has been taught by her for a whole year already.

I dont want to irriate the teacher but at the same time my child is my priority not how irritating Im being.

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Original poster

SocialButterfly · 02/09/2010 21:42

reallytired - no she hasnt had her ears tested but I dont think that is the problem.

She had speech therapy when younger and has always been a bit delayed, I think it just takes her a while to learn stuff.

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fabsoopergroovy · 02/09/2010 21:57

My little chap has done Easyread. It worked for him when everything else was failing. Trouble is as soon as he got confident in his ability he dropped off so he never completed the whole course.

He was on 'the bottom table' (beginning YR2) and regressing when I enrolled him on to the course. Due to circumstsnces beyond my control I had to move him to another school and he has flourished. He is no longer on 'the bottom table' and at the end of YR2 he was where he should be re assessment tables.

I'm very proud of him .

domesticsluttery · 03/09/2010 08:04

DS1 has never "got" phonics. He had a perforated ear drum when he was 3 and lots of hearing problems in the 18 months or so afterwards, so I think that may have contributed to him not picking them up. He never sounds out words, unlike his younger brother. It didn't stop him reading though, in fact he is one of the best readers in his year. So being a look and say reader wouldn't necessarily hold back reading progression.

Some children just don't learn to read as quickly as others! I doubt that in the long run it makes that much difference to their life chances. Most of them probably even out by the end of primary. If she is having extra support on her table then she will more than likely come on leaps and bounds this year.

Teacher401 · 03/09/2010 09:28

Socialbutterfly - consider this: The teacher has taught the class already for a year and therefore knows the children incredibly well, as a result she will group the children where she feels they need to be in order to progress. Whether you agree with her place or not, the teacher will have the pupils needs at the centre of her decision. She will not have placed your daughter in a place where she won't learn as teachers are actually assessed on the progress pupils make. In addition, it will be incredibly rare for a teacher to move a child due to parental request. The teacher sees the full class everyday and you only see your one child.

lovecheese · 03/09/2010 09:59

Socialbutterfly - I empathise with you, it's a bit of a shock when you get info like that, isn't it? I by my own admission tend to over-analyse things, much to DH's despair, he is the chilled one in the relationship! My own DD, who achieved a 1a in maths at the end of year 1 - so bang on average according to mumsnet - told me that she had done some work on the maths "Help" table with a TA yesterday; cue major alarm bells ringing in my head; she said that she had done the task easily, hence the TA tested her alone on something else which she also said was easy; I was all for going in today to ask if there is a problem but DH sensibly said they are probably going to do this with all the kids over the next few days to "See where they are at" after the holidays. It is very likely that your DD will be being assessed in a similar way, and for now I would advise you to relax and see what next week brings.

Original poster

SocialButterfly · 03/09/2010 11:02

Well I spoke to the teacher today as DD had also said that she couldnt see the white board without turning her neck which was uncomfortable. I suggested that she could turn her chair around when the teacher was talking and the teacher agreed this was fine. She also said that although this was her table for registration etc they would swap tables for other activities and she would be in mixed groups for some lessons.

Just to clarify - I was not suggesting that DD was on the wrong table ability wise - Im aware the teacher knows how cabable she is. My concern was that all of the children on her table are naughty and lack concentration and that this would rub off on her or tar her with the same brush. This has already been proven yesterday as she came home and said that 2 of the boys on her table had been sent to the headteacher for being naughty. I guess I will see how it goes.

OP posts:

oldinboden · 04/09/2010 00:01

Don't they change tables? In the primary schools I have had dealings with they have one mixed ability 'ordinary' table then move to a maths table and a reading table for these subjects.

SuzysZoo · 05/09/2010 22:03

Hi there - my daughter is also a look and say learner but the school are very concerned to make her do it the phonics way. Someone recommended the book "Toe by Toe" to me and I'm going to give that a go as it makes them learn by sounding and looks really good.....

sarahfreck · 06/09/2010 22:17

toe by Toe is fantastic imo. I am a tutor and use it with all the children that I teach who struggle with reading. The only thing with it is that it does need to be done regularly - at leas 5 days in every week for it to really work. It says you must do it for 20 minutes at a time but I have found that you can do less ( say 10 mins a day) with younger children and gradually build up to 20 ins. It isn't recommended for children under the age of 8 though. It would probably be OK to use with some 7 year-olds but it might be too much for others.

If done regularly and consistently I have found it works "almost like magic" for many struggling readers!

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