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AHHH!! What are they doing at school???

40 replies

onebadbaby · 01/09/2010 20:29

Am angry!

Just been reading with my 5 year old dd- yet again she she failed to recognise numbers beyond 12 in the book we shared.

My dd is an August born baby and she will be going into year 1 tomorrow. I think she is doing fine until she has to recognise, write or use logic with numbers. I wonder what they have taught her in Reception as when she started she could recognise numbers to 11 and count to 20 and also count objects to 10.

A year later she has some recognition of the numerals between 12 and 20, but is certainly not secure and becomes easily mixed up. She counts confidently to 30 now.

She is still not 100% certain of one more or less. I feel she is a bright girl and would expect a child entering reception at the level she did to have made more progress at school. I can only think this must have been poorly taught at school.

Angry Will be closely monitoring her teacher in year 1!

OP posts:
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Flighttattendant · 02/09/2010 08:39

I find it really hard to understand when parents get so worked up about a 5yo's 'progress'.

They are TINY

they will regress sometimes and forget bits and pieces and most of what they teach them at school is pointless anyway...no 5yo has a dire need for adding unless they are being told to at school.

I would forget it and concentrate on the important stuff...is she happy, etc etc

maths is boring
children are variable in their leaps forward and can surprise you from one day to the next

stop fretting about it.

mrz · 02/09/2010 08:54

The number targets for a child in reception

Says some number names in familiar contexts, such as nursery rhymes.

Counts reliably up to three every day objects.

Counts reliably up to six everyday objects.

Says number names in order.
(The child recites the number names in sequence, counting to, or backwards from, at least 10. This does not
require counting showing 1:1 correspondence.)

Recognises numerals 1 to 9.
(The child consistently recognises numerals in a range of contexts.)

Counts reliably up to 10 everyday objects.
(The child counts up to 10 objects and counts out or takes a specified number of things from a larger collection of objects, showing reliable 1:1 correspondence.)

Orders numbers up to 10.

Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems.
(The child solves or attempts to solve problems and challenges by applying mathematical ideas and methods.
The child explores problems such as missing numbers, grouping, sharing and estimation and responds to
questions such as, "What could we try next?" or "How shall we do it?")

and for a child working beyond EYFS Early Learning Goals

The child has achieved all the early learning goals for numbers as labels and for counting.
In addition the child recognises, counts, orders, writes and uses numbers up to 20.

bullethead · 02/09/2010 09:19

Does the school set out clearly somewhere a list of general goals for learning in Reception and the ways they intend to try to achieve that? This might be in the prospectus and then in more detail in a little pamphlet specifically about the Reception Year.

I don't think you are a nightmare parent because of what you said, or that threats of what they will say about you in the staffroom are particularly helpful either.

If you have any questions it is right to ask the next teacher. There is nothing wrong with asking in a non-confrontational way. It is up to the school then whether they want to feel defensive about it, or respond helpfully.

bullethead · 02/09/2010 09:21

well fancy that - the list of goals!!!

zapostrophe · 02/09/2010 09:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

onebadbaby · 02/09/2010 09:49

My concern is that dd doesn't seem to have made much progress in maths, NOT that she is below average for her age.

When she started school she knew.

-how to count in rote to 20.
-could count objects accurately to about 10.
-knew some easy number bonds like 2+2 and 5+5 and was beginning to say 1 more than to 3.
-recognise numerals to 11.

Now

-she can count to about 30 consistently.
-recognise numerals to 12 consistently and is beginning to recognise numbers to 20 consisitently.
-can say 1 more than a given number to 10 with support but not confidently.
-count accurately objects to 20.

In a year I don't think this enough progress. I feel that school have focused too much on literacy- she is great at this!

Yes I cold teach her at home, but after a full day at school, and then phonics and reading homework every night she is tired. And I don't have the same time to spend with her as I did before she was at school. Sometimes I think the only things she does well are those she has practiced with me- that is why I am questioning the teaching.

When I say I will be monitoring the teacher, I rally meant to say I will be monitoring dd's progress more carefully and talking to the teacher about it if I am still concerned.

OP posts:
zapostrophe · 02/09/2010 10:08

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lovingmy2 · 02/09/2010 10:22

children forget and after 6 weeks of playing and relaxing and not having the structure of a school day i really wouldn't concern yourself. My DS did some recapping this week for gong back today. Number recognition, letter recognition/formation, reading etc and it was surprising what he'd forgot. He is July born, entering Year 1 too and achieved 8's & 9's in his early learning goals so too a bright child but after 6 weeks off i'm not worried. I know he knows it and he'll quickly get back into his stride. Most children regress after a holiday...it's normal so just relax. They're still so young. I was more worried about him lining up and going n without crying than him mixing up his 't' and 'd'.

witlesssarah · 02/09/2010 10:24

The interesting thing about the list mrsz included is that they work with mathematical concepts, rather than just numbers and their recognition

Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems.
(The child solves or attempts to solve problems and challenges by applying mathematical ideas and methods.
The child explores problems such as missing numbers, grouping, sharing and estimation and responds to
questions such as, "What could we try next?" or "How shall we do it?")

Sometimes this kind of understanding can overturn recitation style knowledge. eg DS could sing the alphabet song accurately when he was 3, now he is 4.5 and is working away at recognising the shapes of letters, the sounds they make and the relationships to words - he sings the song less well. I don't take this as a sign that he is regressing.

Perhaps you might feel calmer if you had a go at working out what her mathematical understanding is

mrz · 02/09/2010 12:18

onebadbaby if she can do all that she's certainly achieving well beyond her age expectations

mrz · 02/09/2010 12:28

The goals I posted are only for the number aspect of the PSRN in addition a child will be learning

Responds to the vocabulary involved in addition and subtraction in rhymes and games.

Recognises differences in quantity when comparing sets of objects

Finds one more or one less from a group of up to five objects.

Relates addition to combining two groups.

Relates subtraction to taking away.

In practical activities and discussion, begins to use the vocabulary involved in adding and
subtracting.
(In practical contexts the child understands and begins to use vocabulary involved in addition and
subtraction such as "add", "take away", "makes", "altogether", "how", "many", etc.)

Finds one more or one less than a number from 1 to 10.
(The child is able to find one more or fewer in practical contexts. He or she can talk about "more" or "less".)

Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems.
(In a range of contexts, the child explores and solves practical problems such as doubling, halving, grouping
and sharing, use her or his own methods.)

The child has achieved all the early learning goals for calculating. In addition, the child
uses a range of strategies for addition and subtraction, including some mental recall of
number bonds.
(The child uses a range of strategies for addition and subtraction such as counting on, counting back and
counting up as appropriate. He or she displays mental recall of some addition and subtraction facts, including
some addition doubles and pairs of numbers that total 10.)

if you notice these goals are working mainly with numbers to 10 and a good teacher would want a child to be secure in skills and knowledge with numbers to 10 before moving onto larger numbers. The teacher would also expect the child to do these things without prompting/support from an adult

then there are all the goals for geometry and measure ...

Teacher401 · 02/09/2010 13:00

First of all the amount of parents that turn up in September saying 'My child can count to ten, recognise numbers/letters etc' is amazing. However as teachers when we get assessing we find the children don't actually understand this. Maybe this is the case. It's very easy to blame the school however they spend 10 hours a week looking at maths/English yet you are with her much more often. As for monitoring the Year one teacher how will you do that? Maybe your child needs more support, doesn't mean the teaching is poor.

maggiethecat · 02/09/2010 21:11

Teacher 401 what a strange thing to day "they spend 10 hours a week looking at maths/ english yet you are with her much more often". Many parents have decent enough math skills but how many would feel that they are able to supplement/reinforce what goes on at school?!

I do a number of playful exercises to support dd but after 3 years in school do I really know the formal learning objectives so that I can help dd swim rather than sink at school?? I'm not sure....

Teacher401 · 02/09/2010 21:21

Didn't mean it how it sounded sorry. What I meant was if you're worried, they have only 5-10 hours a week to sort any problems, however if you feel worried you can do extra in the time she is with you. As for learning objectives, I personally believe they are a waste of time, didn't have them when I was at school and I still got a first class degree! My Mum did loads of stuff with me e.g. letter sounds, numbers, basic calculations as well as all the stuff at school, she didn't worry if what I was doing linked in with school.

The department for education spends millions producing documents for parents to support their children with additional stuff at home, look at teachernet.gov for things. So obviously research suggests parents can have a major impact on their children's learning.

Cathycat · 02/09/2010 21:52

I think there is a nice Numberjacks dvd about the teen numbers. Or you could just practice writing and saying them together. Or get a poster and read it together. I realise that's not your point but I always do that with my children if I have a concern.

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