First visit to new school friend's house, and it was filthy...

[KimOrAggie]

I've name changed to post this. DD will be starting school in Sept. Didn't get any of our choices and so she will be going to a school which has a pretty crap reputation. After visits and talking to lovely teachers, feeling reassured about teaching and the school itself, but still not comfortable with it.

I admit this is being snobby, but this is mainly because it's on an estate and the families there are not from the same sort of professional background as DD is used to with the friends she has chosen at nursery and her NCT friends (all of whom are going to different schools). Trying to keep open mind and not be judgemental. Met nice mum whose son is starting in the same class, invited us for lunch today. V kind, DD excited to be getting to know one face at least.

Still feeling distressed as HER HOUSE IS FILTHY. I'm not talking about it being cluttered or untidy (like our place) or having too much kids stuff in a small house (like ours) or a few crumbs or smears or dust (like ours). I'm talking, quite literally, the level of filth that I have never seen in real life before. I honestly did not think anyone lived like that outside a C4 documentary. It really was the before shots in 'How Clean is your house', no kidding. DD got upset about using the loo because it was clearly dirty and had 'brown water' in it. Every surface covered in stuff, and very, very deep grime, like no surface or bit of floor or kitchen appliance or basin or loo had ever been wiped down, much less scrubbed. I hated having lunch there and hated my kids being there. Kids played nicely, perfectly bright family with nice manners, but quite a psychotic level of filth.

I just had to get that off my chest. It's made me more nervous about DD starting school and I'm having difficulty separating one family's living habits from my snobbery about the school in general. Please slap wrists or reassure or suggest ways of handling this. I never want to go to that house again, but this mum seems keen on us all being good friends. Aaargh!

I don't think this level of dirt is anything to so with social class or educational background. It sounds like and extreme one off. In my experience (snob alert) the more working class the family. the cleaner the house! My dd has a very diverse range of friends from his very very socially mixed school, and the language is worse and the standards of housekeeping is lower in the "nice" middle class houses!

The answer to the particular issue? Do the inviting. There are houses I am not particularly keen on my ds going to for different non-hygeine related reasons, and those children just come to us and we are always doing something else if he is invited back.

I agree that cleanliness is not related to class or education. I can think of a few people I know with really disgustingly filthy houses. I just make sure I don't eat there!

I think you're being a total snob and need to get over it, otherwise you'll not make any new friends in the playground and the alpha mummy will eat you alive if she catches wind how you feel.

Cleanliness does not equal middle class you know. Don't judge the other parents/children in the school because of one parent. Maybe that parent has MH problems and could do with a bit of help and support rather than judginess.

Thank you! I do know from experience that cleanliness is not anything to do with social background - my best friend is a lawyer and lives in a gorgeous house but rarely tidies up and never cleans round between one cleaner's visit and the next. I do accept this is a one off, just an unfortunate one, and I would be quite happy to have them all over to ours for tea as they are really nice people. I just don't know how anyone can be so blind about basic levels of hygiene with young children around. I'm a bit lax with the old bleach myself, but that was a total shock!

My mum was brought up on a council estate and my dad was a refugee, so I'm not exactly from posh stock myself. And the parent does not have obvious MH problems - she's intelligent, articulate, cheerful and funny and runs her own business part-time while the kids are at school. She's just a dirty cow!

So why mention the council estate then

So if you know that cleanliness and social class are not connected, why all
the stuff about estates and professional backgrounds and "not quite like us"?

I know of one mum who sends her children to one of the schools worth moving house for on the education board, whose house is like this. Equally professionally I visit houses on what are considered the sink estates of our area and you could eat your dinner off the kitchen floor.

I'm not going to comment on any of the social stuff but are you on the waiting lists for your preferred schools?

Jane ?
Is that you ?

[legs it]

"it's on an estate and the families there are not from the same sort of professional background as DD is used to "

sweet jesus

I think "same professional background as DD is used to" takes the .

I think it's quite fine if you never want to visit that house again, I wouldn't want to either. But let the children be friends, and wait till the school term at least begins to start making judgements on how things are going!

Don't judge the school by one family!!

Obviously you'd prefer your dd not to have to visit dirty houses so invite the child to your house next time.

As ds1's first school he had several friends from a nearby estate and their homes were infinitely cleaner than mine!!!!!

Don't let her go there again. End of.

As for your concerns re: the school. If you don't have any choice you need to make the most of it . This woman sounds very nice to have invited you over so thats a start. Your DD will be unaware of the professional status (or not) of her friends mum and dad. Children don't judge on that basis. If its a problem then either look into alternatives - which I guess you have - or go with it and put her on a waiting list for now.

I think you sound like an utter SNOB. I can understand why you may be uncomfortable in a dirty house, but what has that got to do with her class or background. I think you have to examine your own attitudes and behaviour.

You sound completely up yourself. Even without the dirty house, iyo, you were already looking down your nose at them. You do know that kids generally don't notice peoples backgrounds don't you?

I agree that IME council houses are often much tidier and cleaner than middle class houses.. I suppose unemployed people have more time to clean. I think sometimes its a sense of proving that they are just as good i.e. I might have a council house and no job but look how beautifully presented my home is. Its a pride thing.

By contrast most middle class homes are covered in toys, dust and clutter.

This sounds like a freaky one off. Personally the level of dirt you describe is a signal of something a bit disturbing. But Im certain its not a sign of the othe family homes of the children at the school.

The filthiest house I have ever been in must be worth well over a £1million. Some people don't give a fig about this kind of thing, I secretly admire them.

I have just moved my son from a school after two years of trying to "keep positive." It was a similar school to the one described.Ofsted described it as being in the catchment in an area of "serious social deprivation" It is on a large council estate and was not our first choice.Before everyone pounces on me and labels me a snob, I would just like to assert that I grew up in a council estate and now teach in a deprived setting.I realise that there are decent people in all social settings.
However I understand the original poster's worries.It seems to be a taboo thing to admit that you might not share the same aspirations, hopes and lifestyle of the majority (not all) of the people in a catchment such as this.
The majority of the parents had low or no educational aspirations for their children.Many did not read with their children. (And not because they couldn't in many cases but "that's the school's job") .Many publicly swore at and publicly hit their children.Many were loudly rude about the staff.
This doesn't make them terrible people but it did mean I felt a "fish out of water".I struggled with berating myself for what I feared was snobbery.If it was, then I still feel that moving my child has brought him into a school with similar parents,who have educational aspitartions and observe the same (generally) standards of behaviour around their children.
To the original poster I would say go on the waiting lists of schools you like.Keep as positive as you can and give it a chance.I did for two years.I didn't start looking for another school for a year.I wish I had sooner.Your school might be different to mine.The ethos was beginning to rub off on him for the worse.I have older children too and know that they have to mix with many different kinds of people eventually but it can wait until you have instilled the values that you hold dear.
Good luck.

YANBU about not wanting to go round someones house cos its filthy, however you are being snobby about making judgments about people because they live on an estate and don't have a professional background .

"I agree that IME council houses are often much tidier and cleaner than middle class houses.. I suppose unemployed people have more time to clean. "

Foureleven, you do know that council house doesn't = unemployed, don't you I know a regional bank manager who lives in HA accomodation.

Eeek.

You don't sound like a very nice person to have around, to be honest. So judgemental!

If you want your daughter to do well and be happy at this school, I strongly suggest that you drop the notion that having a profession makes you an all round better person, or indeed that your daughter, aged 4, can tell who is professional and "like us".

Open your mind. You don't have to be an ex PA with a ring on your finger and a tidy house to be a fantastic friend. A scruffy house does not = A Bad Person