First visit to new school friend's house, and it was filthy...

[KimOrAggie]

I've name changed to post this. DD will be starting school in Sept. Didn't get any of our choices and so she will be going to a school which has a pretty crap reputation. After visits and talking to lovely teachers, feeling reassured about teaching and the school itself, but still not comfortable with it.

I admit this is being snobby, but this is mainly because it's on an estate and the families there are not from the same sort of professional background as DD is used to with the friends she has chosen at nursery and her NCT friends (all of whom are going to different schools). Trying to keep open mind and not be judgemental. Met nice mum whose son is starting in the same class, invited us for lunch today. V kind, DD excited to be getting to know one face at least.

Still feeling distressed as HER HOUSE IS FILTHY. I'm not talking about it being cluttered or untidy (like our place) or having too much kids stuff in a small house (like ours) or a few crumbs or smears or dust (like ours). I'm talking, quite literally, the level of filth that I have never seen in real life before. I honestly did not think anyone lived like that outside a C4 documentary. It really was the before shots in 'How Clean is your house', no kidding. DD got upset about using the loo because it was clearly dirty and had 'brown water' in it. Every surface covered in stuff, and very, very deep grime, like no surface or bit of floor or kitchen appliance or basin or loo had ever been wiped down, much less scrubbed. I hated having lunch there and hated my kids being there. Kids played nicely, perfectly bright family with nice manners, but quite a psychotic level of filth.

I just had to get that off my chest. It's made me more nervous about DD starting school and I'm having difficulty separating one family's living habits from my snobbery about the school in general. Please slap wrists or reassure or suggest ways of handling this. I never want to go to that house again, but this mum seems keen on us all being good friends. Aaargh!

[mumbar]

YABVVVVVU.

I live in HA flat which I pay 3/4 of a month, single parent who works f/t.

My ds goes to a mixed school. my best friend earns lots so does her dh and they have 2 cars and a boat. Both our houses are clean. DC's old friends from nursery has a snob mum who thinks she's better than the rest, that school is failing (recent ofsted satisfactory) and her house - much to the surprise of me and friend - is filthy.

DS is from lower social class part of his school but in some ways he is 'nicer' than the other children who have all latest ds games, wii games, played ALL the iphone games etc as he expects less and can amuse himself much more easily.

If you don't want to visit again don't but please don't judge a whole school on one person, or expect your dd to base her friends on 'what daddy/ mummy does for a living'.

[lisad123isgoingcrazy]

i know loads fo different people from many different backgrounds. I have been to a drug users house that was spotless but a very rich family who was dirty as hell. I know one teen mum whos house is tidier than mine and another who lives like a pig. Its nothing to do with class or money but just what is important to you I guess. I have one friend I have known for years though friend who invited me to lunch and I admit I was shocked by the level of dirt and mess in the house, but then I hate dirt. Mess I can handle, clutter is fine, but hate dirt!

I think you need to look passed it after all these parents wont be teaching your child, the teacher will!

[LynetteScavo]

But KimOrAggie thought the mum was a good person to befriend before she visited the house.

And kids do notice the state of other peoples houses. My 7yo particularly likes his friends house with white carpets, where they have to take their shoes off before entering the house, and everything is spotless and orderly. He's less keen on his friends house with the "horrible brown carpets like we used to have"

[TidyBush]

Well I come from a working class background and there is no one more houseproud than my mom

[semicolon]

I don't think the state of the house is the issue here. I think it's your unease about the school.

I think you need to take a deep breath and plough on, letting your DD make friends, visiting friends etc.

I think you will find nice like-minded people in normal homes pretty quickly. As all sorts of people live on a council estate.

But the question is whether your DD is happy at the school. So give it some time, try to be positive and best of luck.

[Mumi]

I know someone whose house always smells of cat urine, whose shower tray is full of grime and whose toilet had never been cleaned in all the years I've known her. She is a bacteriologist at Cambridge.

Consider that no school vets the homes of their potential pupils (and rightly so). If your daughter is only encouraged to mix with those from a more privileged social background, she will have some pretty big issues in the future.

[rabbitstew]

Did the poster ever confirm she was talking about a council estate and not a housing estate?...

[foureleven]

for the vomiters in the context of OPs post, was she talking about council houses where people are working full time and paying rent or council houses in the sense of houses inhabited by people who have the council paying for their rent... ?

[usualsuspect]

foureleven ..she was talking about a council estate ..inhabited by some people who work and some who don't ..how hard is it?

[KimOrAggie]

Just to clarify, the house I went to today was not a council house. I just said the school was on an estate - and yes I did mean a council estate, and it is pretty run down. I've got friends from all sorts of backgrounds, including my husband and his family, and as I pointed out, my mum was brought up in a council house. Yes, DD is on all the waiting lists but where we live has been very over-subscribed this year. I have no idea of the background of the very nice mum I visited, I was just shocked at the extreme mess and dirt. I think many of you have jumped to conclusions. I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest about being more comfortable with people who share the same aspirations and values as you, regardless of their income, jobs or 'class', whatever that means these days. I've met this mum a few times and we get on well and in many ways are pretty similar. Her kids are beautifully behaved. Perhaps I confused the issue by apparently linking a) not being happy about the school and b) spending a couple of hours in an environment that was just deeply unpleasant. The responses on this thread have reminded me of why I don't spend much time on Mumsnet these days. For every neutral, considered, sensible response, there's a whole load of people jumping to conclusions and being as 'judgey' as you say I am.

[southeastastra]

how about just get to know her before judging on her house

usual step away from the thread

[rabbitstew]

I wasn't aware of the poster ever using the word "council". So far as I'm concerned, an "estate" is just a large area of houses all built in a similar style, some of which will be owner-occupied, some privately rented (with or without council help), and more often than not, none owned by the council (particularly these days...). In other words, the only thing you could hold against an estate in this case is that the houses all look the same and may be cheaper than non-housing estate houses, because of their similarity to each other.

[Wordsonascreen]

OP's not back
Its definately Jane.

[foureleven]

I dont know... ive lost all sense of where this started to be honest. I was just resonding to the comments along the lines of 'actually people in council houses often have nice houses' to put forward my experience of people who were at home all day in houses paid for by the council who kept their houses really beautifully presented and I had assumed that was because they had more time to do so.. which they do.. IME.

[mumbar]

I thnk op its the tendency to defend ones own. I find it hard reading threads like this as I'm in a HA flat and working class. Despite the fact I work f/t (single parent) and I'm in OU doing my degree to do teacher training. Funnily enough the professionl I mentioned knowing with the dirtiest house I know is a teacher for IB in a city public grammer school.

YANBU to be upset about not getting your chosen school and to be concerend about dd being split from her friends but to assume dd won't be able to cope with having friends from a different professional background is unfounded and actually she will probably be a nicer person for it. More tolerent and understanding iykwim.

[rabbitstew]

Obviously KimOrAggie clarified before I'd finished typing my missive!

I don't think there is anything wrong with being worried about having nothing in common with the other parents at your child's school. I think it's impossible to tell whether this will be the case or not before your child has started school, though.

[forehead]

KimOrAggie, the whole point of mumsnet is to exchange ideas , give advice etc, Not all posters will agree with your point of view.
The posters are only 'judging' you based on your post and it just seemed that you didn't like the school and was therefore using this filthy house in order to reinforce your own misgivings about the school. You have issues with the SCHOOL, which explains why you posted in the Primary Education section, however you started your thread by discussing the state of the woman's home.
You cannot therefore blame people for 'jumping to conclusions'
I beleve that you are being a tad disingenuous tbh.

[usualsuspect]

SEA ...I'm gone

[southeastastra]

are you on msn usual?

[willsywoo]

I think you need to be careful your dd does'nt pick up on this as she's going to have to spend her school life with these kids,the real world is a hard place.I had a really good friend years ago who's house was a tip and her Dad was a solicitor and her Mum an artist,they were so lovely and i did'nt care how dirty their house was,they also had seven children (probably why it was so bad!)

[Octavia09]

Colditz
"Open your mind. You don't have to be an ex PA with a ring on your finger and a tidy house to be a fantastic friend. scruffy house does not = A Bad Person A"

I think that KimOrAggiewho has been just shocked by seeing such a dirty house and probably has been asking herself many times: why, why can you not just clean the house once a week or buy bleach and poor it down the toilet. Why!?

When I moved to our previous house I wanted to cry because the landlord was not bothered to clean it. He took the deposit from the tenants and left the house as it was (people who lived there were very laid back about cleaning). It was very dirty but I can imagine it was not as bad as this one.

I have seen How Clean is Your House and those people are just very strange and excentic. They are like those who do not care when shown on Jaremy Kyle's show. They are not embarrassed at all.

What is so good being that dirty? How can you teach your children that tidy is good for you? Do you prefer to live in a clean environment or a dirty? Imagine if we all dumped our household rubbish wherever we could and the council did not collect it and did not clean the streets; and no-one collected dogs' poo on the street...... And everyone was so happy and nice.

When you care about your personal hygiene it means you will also care about someone else's. If you got used to not wash your hands after using the toilet and then prepare a sandwich with "dirty" hands then you will probably do it to your guests. While it is normal to you it is not normal to your guests. And may be you have got some immunity (I doubt there is any against parasitic worms) to the bacteria in your house your guests might not have it and might get ill from eating that sandwich. Will it make you a fantastic friend? So, where is the respect to your guests? You also do not want your grown up child to fall in love with a child from a filthy house in case old habbits die hard. It is not always possible to change your bad habbits even for the person you are madly in love with. You do not want your child to clean after this careless partner all the time.

I am sorry if my post has offended anyone. This is just my opinion. I feel sorry however, for the kids of such parents that they grow up and think it is normal to live in a filthy place. It is, however, surprising that much older kids do not notice the difference between good and bad hygiene especially after having lessons at school and visiting clean houses of their friends.

[seeker]

"council houses in the sense of houses inhabited by people who have the council paying for their rent... ?"




You can NEVER use 'council house" in this sense because, apart from the fact that the term has a completely different meaning, councils do not, ever, under any circumstances pay people's rent. Some people get housing benevit which helps pay their rent - council or private, but that comes from central government's benefit budget.

[giveitago]

OK so kids not going to school you wanted but you walked into someone's home and took their hospitality all the while judging them by your own standards and using that as a benchmark for your dd's education.

FFS why would a small kid be used to hanging out with people of a certain professional background - is she really aware? I find that wierd.

By the time I was your kid's age I'd spend a few months abroad in a country with seriously fucking rich people, being waited on hand and foot and we come home to our small flat in the UK. My family are very educated and well travelled etc but when I went to meet my future dh's family abroad I stayed in pretty much a prefab and guess what - I was grateful for their hospitality which was considerable.

Oh - are they bright given their low status?

You clearly cannot cope in a multicultural society - multicultural means people from different economic backgrounds as well as religious or racial ones.

This is about the school system and sadly you have not been given the school of your choice and now you are judging the school by it's entrants rather than the nice teachers etc.