Sight reading and decoding

[runoutofnameideas]

How do slightly older children learn new words which are irregular - do they still decode somehow with rules I'm not aware of or learn them by sight? Something like "unusual" for example?

Do they work out that there are different ways to pronounce say the middle u and then try them out in their head or something?

Ds just finished reception. He is a very able reader (well I might just be being a proud mum thinking that!) and has zoomed through the levels (and before anyone says too quickly, he does understand and has good expression, rarely sounds out out loud) but he wasn't taught at his level at all for reading within school so I feel a bit lost about how this all works. He is a natural sight reader although he can decode if he has to so I am wondering if he will just learn these sorts of words by sight as he goes which is I'm sure what I did but maybe that's not the done thing these days?

Advice would be great if my question isn't too vague and confusing!

OK probably not photographic reading that wiki entry - which was interesting incidentally.

Just a very, very good memory.

p.s. MRZ that phonics international site table is fab - thanks.

oh crap!

I had no idea that ORT was a Look and Say scheme. I assumed that, because schools are using phonics, that ORT was a phonologically controlled scheme (of which we have a few - Usborne etc).

Now I understand why so many people complain about ORT still being used.

I feel silly

Now the dumbest question
What is a 'look and say' scheme?

To be fair ORT have published Floppy Phonics and Songbirds in response to demand but most schools sre still using the old Look & Say books

I agree runoutofnameideas Phonics International is a great site for anyone interested in learning more about phonics the first unit is free.

ah I see mrz. I've seen floppy phonics books in The Works. am I imagining it or is there some magic key thing and the dog is called floppy?

never heard of songbirds, off to google it.

if I asked my DD's future school what schemes they used would they think me a total freak/pushy mum?

Magic Key is old style though.

That one document on PI is just fab and explains everything I think I need to discuss when we are reading tougher words - I was struggling to explain the rules. He was quite interested.

golly, is the Julia Donaldson who wrote the songbirds books the Gruffalo Julia Donaldson? oo-er

Please is 'look and say'=don't sound out or something?

sort of, IIRC it's basically the process of learning words by recognition i.e. this word says 'the' - you just keep telling the kids until they remember the shape of the word.

or something like that

Look and say method, a child learns the whole word at once rather than as a series of letters or sounds. To teach whole words, the teacher may use flashcards and/or pictures to represent the word. The teacher might sound out the word for the child and ask the child to repeat the word rather than sound it out for himself/herself.

You'll find information about all the best decodable book schemes here:

www.dyslexics.org.uk/resources_and_further_11.htm

HTH

Magic Key is old style though.

That one document on PI is just fab and explains everything I think I need to discuss when we are reading tougher words - I was struggling to explain the rules. Ds was quite interested even in looking at it.

Sorry for repetition there - not sure what went on.

yes the very same Julia Donaldson MathsMadMummy our children love the books.

The Big Cat Phonics books have also been written by well known children's book authors.
Martin Waddell,(Farmer Duck Owl Babies Can't You Sleep Little Bear ) Emma Chichester Clark (If I was you blue kangaroo series More!) and Shoo Rayner (Fly Away Home - Viking Vik series)

Thanks. So the 'look and say' is for 'tricky'(what they are called at dd's school) words then? Words like 'the', 'was', 'said' that cannot be sounded out phonetically.

No "tricky" words aren't part of Look & Say. "tricky" words can be decoded once the child has been taught the alternative ways of writing sounds but in the very early stages a child may need words like "was" and "said" before the alternatives are taught. I like to teach the alternative way when I introduce the "tricky" word - so would teach "a" can represent the /o/ sound after /w/ in words like was and what and watch and "ai" can represent /e/ in words such as said and again

With Look & Say all words are taught as a whole by sight.

I have to give it to you,MRZ! I think you are a great teacher! Seriously!

thanks

You are welcome!

Runoutofideas, that's an interesting example there, 'unusual.' As MRZ says, it contains examples of u as 'yoo', but what about the ending? - that's actually '-zhal', of course, and couldn't be deduced from phonic knowledge of u/s/u/al.

I think systems that teach comprehensive knowledge of all the sounds (like Read Write Inc) are hard to beat. In a learning mentor role, I have seen low-ability readers in KS2 who still have specific gaps in their phonic knowledge that are holding them back - they would not be able to decode a nonsense word, in other words - and because they have ready very few books in their entire lives (opportunity) have not managed to learn the phonic rules intuitively by just reading a lot. But this may also happen with children who do have such opportunities.

However, if your child is naturally a very able reader, I wouldn't start doing extra phonics work at home. You'd need to be sure that whatever you're doing is right in sync with what's happening at school, or you'll cause confusion. And in any case, your child will read a great deal and pick up the rules that way.

It's okay to tell the child that this is a word they just have to learn because it doesn't obey the rules. (After all, lots of high-frequency words are like this - the, put, down, be, girl...)

sorry, typo, meant '-zhwal'

'Down', 'girl', 'put', 'be' and 'unusual' all follow the rules - all are phonically regular.

Feenie, well, take your point but yes and no,smile] since the child has just finished reception. Phonemes with two letters, one sound (-ow, ir) come later. Also at this stage, u sounded as -oo is irregular (it's sounded as 'u' in 'bus'), and 'e' sounded as -ee is also irregular - it's sounded as in 'went.'